Archery.... is there a need for further change?

geoffretired

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Chuffalump, we are saying the same things,yes? Some elements of the fun archery can be done for the club at the club. Some fun sessions could be for visitors? Most fun sessions run by other agencies.
It is the work load of the club volunteers that prompted me to start the thread, up to a point anyway plus the reduction in their own shooting time
 

dvd8n

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I've said this before but I guess that it bears repeating.

The GNAS/AGB model seems to be hell bent on producing elite level competition archers. The rank and file, who aren't interested in, or able to dedicate the time, or have the skills, or are simply too old to fit into their model of archery are not well served by them. The organisational structure of club/county/region/national body/AGB is over-complicated, over-expensive and non-inclusive to the average hobbyist archer.

This is in contrast to the the average field club where you can pay a modest yearly fee, turn up when you have the time, meet friends, go round the course, pretend that you're Robin Hood/Legolas/Katniss Everdine, make the occasional bad shot, get called a ****, get a bit of coaching, get help to look for your arrows, and generally have fun.

I believe that if field archery had a higher profile and do a better job at beginners courses then AGB would really struggle.
 

Whitehart

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The pay and play does seem like a good idea. Perhaps run separately from AGB rather than by them.
Some people are already running them successfully;
Hi Geoff Please name them and define successful I don't know of any in the UK that even pay their way.
 

bimble

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This is in contrast to the the average field club where you can pay a modest yearly fee, turn up when you have the time, meet friends, go round the course, pretend that you're Robin Hood/Legolas/Katniss Everdine, make the occasional bad shot, get called a ****, get a bit of coaching, get help to look for your arrows, and generally have fun.
My bolding literally describs the majority of members (probably +200) of my club. My AGB TARGET club.
 

dvd8n

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My bolding literally describs the majority of members (probably +200) of my club. My AGB TARGET club.
Oh, I agree. AGB clubs can hit a lot of the points that I listed. But I'd argue that field clubs manage to hit more of the points more consistently and a little better.

For example, my AGB club has a great atmosphere and is welcoming to all bow types, but meets one evening a week (in winter anyway) as opposed to my field club which is open dawn to dusk 365 days a year, for about half the price of the AGB fees alone.
 

Graham Smith

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Oh, I agree. AGB clubs can hit a lot of the points that I listed. But I'd argue that field clubs manage to hit more of the points more consistently and a little better.

For example, my AGB club has a great atmosphere and is welcoming to all bow types, but meets one evening a week (in winter anyway) as opposed to my field club which is open dawn to dusk 365 days a year, for about half the price of the AGB fees alone.
Yep, the availability of our wood 24/7 is a major improvement on once a week shooting.
 

bimble

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and yet I can think of field clubs that don't have access to their woods 24/7... such as Pentref. Whereas my club hold 3 indoor sessions a week and the field is available year round during daylight hours*.

Not all cases are the same.

* - my club is really lucky with the facilities it has
 

Kernowlad

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Uh oh, it’s target vs field time...

Our target club was actually much more accessible; I was a key holder so could use the outdoor range any time. It was a lovely range on a country estate.
But the tight clique began to grate. The exclusion of my keen, enthusiastic and actually rather competent son didn’t sit right. The AGB fees seemed excessive. Plus the other things I won’t repeat. The lack of progression. The weird rules. Not once were we asked to shoot for the club away despite being competent enough.

The field club is further away, they shoot less but the attitudes are far more relaxed, more inclusive, the type of bow doesn’t matter, other kids shoot and are encouraged. We’ve done two incredibly fun tournaments and will do several this year.

From other posts here it seems that we aren’t alone in preferring this much more inclusive attitude.
 
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geoffretired

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It seems that there is support for adding different types of archery venue( PnP for example) to allow some people to dip into shooting arrows, rather than joining a club. Archers already have the chance to take up field or target, or both, and a third option could be good for some people. It is no good wanting these PnP places if they do not generate a profit. How can that be sorted?
Getting rid of the cliques, in some target archery clubs, sounds like something we would all like to happen.
Who is going to sort it out?
 

KidCurry

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It is no good wanting these PnP places if they do not generate a profit. How can that be sorted?
I suspect if they are to work they will need to be attached to more popular facilities. Stand alone will be very difficult. Insurance will also be problematic. I think 'Archery Legends' in Loughborough ask you to sign a waiver for personal injury. I've never shot at any venue where this is a requirement. I have shot on gun ranges in the USA where this is a requirement and people have been shot.
Getting rid of the cliques, in some target archery clubs, sounds like something we would all like to happen.
I'm not sure you can force people to socialise. People naturally migrate to groups. I don't think it has been an issue at the clubs have shot with in 30 years. Well, not that I have noticed. But then not everyone fits in everywhere.
 

Kernowlad

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I suspect if they are to work they will need to be attached to more popular facilities. Stand alone will be very difficult. Insurance will also be problematic. I think 'Archery Legends' in Loughborough ask you to sign a waiver for personal injury. I've never shot at any venue where this is a requirement. I have shot on gun ranges in the USA where this is a requirement and people have been shot.

I'm not sure you can force people to socialise. People naturally migrate to groups. I don't think it has been an issue at the clubs have shot with in 30 years. Well, not that I have noticed. But then not everyone fits in everywhere.
We’re not really getting anywhere.
We have some archers content with the way things are; implying that those who talk of cliques aren’t good at socialising.
We have disgruntled ex target archers happy with field but rather sad that their target experience wasn’t ideal (like us).
We have disgruntled ex target archers who simply won’t touch it again even with a long pointy stick.
We have potential new archers put off by the rather lengthy and expensive learning period.
We have those wanting to shoot every waking hour.
We have those who view archery as a casual bit of fun but are still keen to gain or retain competence.
We have a handful of top level archers who are probably happy with the status quo.

What does the sport want? More people? A better reputation? More medal winners?

I think these questions need answering before anything can be done.

In the meantime be kind to other archers. Encourage and help them. Learn from them. Don’t let stuffy old traditions and snobbery get in the way.
 

geoffretired

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We have some archers content with the way things are; implying that those who talk of cliques aren’t good at socialising.
I thought I had explained that; I was not implying that.
Looking at the list, it is a wonder that anyone ever takes up archery; or if they do it is a miracle they stay with it.
My guess is that once all the problems have been resolved, there will be more archers wanting to change things yet again.
I like shooting arrows, I like coaching other archers so they don't have to struggle with an inefficient form.
I am happy that PnP archery is available. And field shooting and flight shooting.
We have those wanting to shoot every waking hour.
We have those who view archery as a casual bit of fun but are still keen to gain or retain competence.
We have a handful of top level archers who are probably happy with the status quo.
Thank goodness there are such archers or there would be next to nothing left.
 

LAC Mark

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In the meantime be kind to other archers. Encourage and help them. Learn from them.
This just about sums up my archery experience so far, or at least on the line anyway.
This is at the club level, local and national shoots, that said I shoot barebow and I find that other barebowers are even more friendly, maybe its something to do with being a minority (their are other bow styles that are just friendly I'm sure).
 

Kernowlad

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I thought I had explained that; I was not implying that.
Looking at the list, it is a wonder that anyone ever takes up archery; or if they do it is a miracle they stay with it.
My guess is that once all the problems have been resolved, there will be more archers wanting to change things yet again.
I like shooting arrows, I like coaching other archers so they don't have to struggle with an inefficient form.
I am happy that PnP archery is available. And field shooting and flight shooting.
Thank goodness there are such archers or there would be next to nothing left.
That wasn’t even slightly aimed at you; it was to the post before mine. You’re getting paranoid! You’ve given me loads of help and advice, made plenty of good points in recent threads. I’m with you not arguing against you!
 

KidCurry

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What does the sport want? More people? A better reputation? More medal winners?
I think these questions need answering before anything can be done.
There are 30,000+ archers just in AGB I think. I'm not sure that every one will not have a different answer. For me, I'm not sure why more archers in the sport would be good. Shooting facilities, especially in the south east are getting harder to find. I've lost count of how many have disappeared because the ground is used for other needs such as housing.
I didn't realise the sport was lacking in reputation. I guess this is easier to judge from outside rather than inside. What is its reputation of archery generally rather than specifically? For me I have found the sport at National, County, and Club level to be incredibly friendly, approachable and fun.
More medals will help attract funding, but I'm concerned that misguided youngsters are attracted to the professional archery dream when the reality is, and probably will always be, a poor choice for professional sports people.
 
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geoffretired

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I am still curious to find out why we should be trying to attract more members. For clubs with low numbers I can see they might feel it would be a good thing. But what about the clubs that feel comfortable with the numbers they already have. Replacing members who leave archery, is a good thing; but that is not the same.
I ask WHO wants clubs to attract more members; if it isn't the clubs themselves?
If it is the clubs, it is good to have access to different ways of attracting members, so those methods can be used when required.
 
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