Pin nock fragility - any recommendations?

Cereleste

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I bought a set of large groove Easton pin nocks a few months ago and have shot them maybe 200 times each. I've noticed nearly all of them have a large crack developing in the same place on the side that doesn't have the L, and about half have a much smaller crack starting to form underneath the L. Except for one, which likely bent during my release, arrow broke between the release and hitting my soft foam target.
The nocks were new and in their original package but several years old from a store closeout on eBay. They've only been used at multi-spots or long distances so no impacts, and haven't been near any solvents or pliers.
In nearly a decade of using large groove G pin nocks, some of which are nearly that old and still fine, I've rarely had any nock damage that wasn't directly attributable to an arrow impact. A few tiny stable cracks here and there after extended use, but nothing near this size or scale. So I wasn't in the habit of getting the magnifying lens out between ends to check nocks.

I'm now in the market for some more nocks, and hesitant to either
1 - pay what feels like a lot of money for Beiter and likely redo my centre servings, besides I'm not a fan of the aesthetic
2 - pay only slightly less for more Easton pin nocks that could have the same issue, or go back to g pin nocks. Psychologically, I know I'm more likely to turn a blind eye to a small crack in an expensive nock.
3 - try out the MAC/Bohning/flex pin nocks which are a faction of the price but have almost no reviews and are possibly cheaper for a good reason. If they result in another arrow being destroyed then I lose any savings several times over.

So, has anyone used any pin nocks that aren't Easton or Beiter, and did they suffer from any premature cracking or inconsistent fit?

Does anyone whose used Easton pin (not g pin) nocks for a long time have a rough idea of how common it is to have them all crack like this? If mine is the one batch in a thousand then I'll just chalk it up to bad luck.
 

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Stretch

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I used Easton Pin Nocks on quite a few occasions as they are a little stiffer than Beiter. Never had the problem you are seeing - and that is across a few different colours incl. Solid yellow, white, red and clear. That includes a trialling a pre-production run. All on X10 pins.

Did have a very similar problem with in/out Beiter and Pin Out Beiter and to some degree pin Beiter all in the #2 size with good nock fit. Weird though that since changing to #1 size (driven By dropping from 20 strand to 18 strand) I haven’t cracked any In/out.

I’ve had theories relating to nock tension but nothing I’ve been able to substantiate. Ultimately I don’t really like pin Nocks. They are a pfaf, add a tolerance unnecessarily and IMHO are no more likely to protect the shaft than anything else.

Easton and Beiter are single mould Nocks, hence the price. I was underwhelmed by the Bohning nock. If trying something else I’d go with FIVICS or something like that. Just try some cheapo Nocks and see how it goes?

Stretch
 

dvd8n

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I've always found pin nocks more fragile than insert nocks with a longitudinal crack alongside the pin being the inevitable failure mode. I've always put it down to the plastic being in tension rather than compression.

I used Accunocks for a while and found that they had a tendency to crack after a few hundred shots.

I decided to try Beiter, figuring that the extra cost would buy me reliability, but it didn't seem to be the case. I found that I was getting a catastrophic failure pretty much every end, and without warning, resulting in fluorescent plastic shards flying towards the target alongside the arrow.

I then tried Bohning and they were the best yet, but they still crack. I inspect them often and accept the replacement cost. On the other hand, I've never had the back of an arrow get damaged since switching to pins and I've shot a few nocks off.

One thing to note is that solid colours seem to be way more robust than transparent ones.
 
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dvd8n

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I did have a theory at one time that mixing pin/nock manufacturers could make things worse, but that was just a hunch on my part; I have no data to back that up.
 

dvd8n

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I've also heard people claim that if the flatness / angle of the shoulder of the pin doesn't match the back of the nock then that can wedge / lever the nock apart but again I have no evidence.
 

Cereleste

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I've also heard people claim that if the flatness / angle of the shoulder of the pin doesn't match the back of the nock then that can wedge / lever the nock apart but again I have no evidence.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give the Fivics and maybe Bohning a go and keep an eagle eye in case they start to crack.

In case it helps any theories out there:
Half of the pins are Easton and half are an unknown brand that came with a lightly used set of ACEs. The unknown ones have a slight flat (the pin in the shaft in the picture) before the pointy bit at the end, and are 0.01mm narrower but the same length. However in this case there's no difference in the size or shape of the cracks in the nocks between the types of insert.
I've got the nock fit on the string very loose currently, the lightest of flicks releases it. More repeatably, I can just add 185g (arrow+a bag of points) before it falls under its own weight.
 

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Timid Toad

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Two suggestions to check: nock fit on the string: over snug or over loose? And secondly the only time I've cracked nocks is when I've had rear end contact of arrows with my bow or rest. Very minor contact over time seems to build up. For me it did not result in spin wing damage, which was a surprise and only came to light after some high speed filming.
 

KidCurry

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I was using pin nocks for years when shooting compound. I found Beiter and Easton were susceptible to split after a couple of months shooting 4-5x a week. But this was the transparent versions. I did not have the same problem when shooting solid colours. However, I still changed them quite regularly and it is impossible to see a developing split in solid colours.
Because I changed regularly it was costing a bit so I changed to MAC nocks solid colours. They worked as well as Easton, I had no split failures as I changed frequently, but they are a fraction of the price so I was happy.
Now I have turned to BB I'm testing nocks again. So far it is between MAC solid pin and Beiter solid asymmetric. Both are working very well but again the Beiter are just so expensive.
Note they didn't always split from the edge....
1592213467171.png 1592213502930.png
 

Stretch

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I've got the nock fit on the string very loose currently, the lightest of flicks releases it.
Just to be clear, my observation is that they are more likely to crack when nock fit is relatively loose. Not going to try and conjure a hypothesis on that.

When testing prototype Easton Pin Nocks (1998?) every time I broke a nock I damaged the pin. Every time I damaged the pin the shaft started to show signs of cracking within a few weeks. I tested for about 3 months and AFAIR broke 5 arrows this way. Went back to Beiter (4.5 Overfit at the time).

Stretch
 

dvd8n

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it is impossible to see a developing split in solid colours.
I don't entirely agree with this. The splits are a lot harder to spot but you can usually see them. Every few weeks I check them with a magnifying glass and I can generally spot cracks developing. You can spot them by feel too; if you flex the nocks the cracks open up and become more visible. The fit slackens as the cracks develop too.
 

Stretch

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...decided to try Beiter, figuring that the extra cost would buy me reliability, but it didn't seem to be the case. I found that I was getting a catastrophic failure pretty much every end, and without warning, resulting in fluorescent plastic shards flying towards the target alongside the arrow.
Can you elaborate on that? I have never heard of anyone, compound or recurve, having any nock fail like this at that rate on new nocks. Did you contact Beiter? To get such catastrophic results the polycarbonate would need to have been exposed to solvent etc or come out of the mould already split and I think you’d notice the split on install.

Stretch
 

dvd8n

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Can you elaborate on that? I have never heard of anyone, compound or recurve, having any nock fail like this at that rate on new nocks. Did you contact Beiter? To get such catastrophic results the polycarbonate would need to have been exposed to solvent etc or come out of the mould already split and I think you’d notice the split on install.

Stretch
I bought a few bags of Beiter pin nocks a few years back. They were neon transparent. I swapped them onto a set of existing arrows so no solvent issues. They were ok for a session or two but then they started to crack up. I was having to check them every end for cracks but was inevitably missing some and when I shot a cracked one I was getting an arrow flying down the range followed by neon shrapnel shining in the sun. I think that it was probably the fourth session when this happened three or four times that I decided that the nocks just weren't working for me so I disposed of the ones that I had left and went back to my old ones.

I did not notice cracks on install. They may have been there but if so I didn't spot them. I assumed that the problem was either that Beiter nocks were fragile or they weren't compatible with my pins.

I didn't consider that it may have been a bad batch but I guess that it may have been. I did not contact Beiter as I had totally lost confidence in them so I just moved on.

I did raise it on one of the forums (I can't remember which one) but I didn't get much joy as apparently Beiter can do no wrong and I was mistaken :rolleyes:
 

KidCurry

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You can spot them by feel too; if you flex the nocks the cracks open up and become more visible. The fit slackens as the cracks develop too.
I've never had a crack from the string end other than obvious rear impacts. I think if you can open the crack by flexing the nock, the nock has already failed and not in the early stages. Mind you I was shooting 60lb compound which would find the smallest developing crack :)
 
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dottorfoggy

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In my short experience few years ago I didn't like them for the same reason, they are more fragile than outnock, now I'm back on beiter pinnock, transparent red, let's see how long take to see the first crack.
I'm thinking to try the fivics pinnock next time
 

Stretch

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Hmm, exploding nocks issue is just weird. I’ve been shooting these types of nocks since 1989 and I’ve never seen it or anything even close. They either had a batch issue (which isn’t supposed to be possible) or they were damaged by heat/chemical exposure somewhere along the road. No way I would’ve let that ride personally, they are too expensive.

If the nock fails under launch all sorts of bad outcomes are possible (which is why you check your Nocks for damage ). So a dealer /manufacturer needs to know.

Like I said, I’ve had minor problems with Beiter cracking in the past (usually over maybe 3 or 4 months) but I changed to small in/outs in September. Just checked them now, all still good. (Although 7 have been replaced due to impact damage). So yes, they don’t last forever but if you are changing them very frequently it would say to me something is wrong.

Most robust nock I even shot was the size #1 Easton G nock (not pin). I only changed to Beiter 12/2 because I dropped a few pounds and the G nock was a bit stiffer.

Equally I have a set of ACE with Beiter nocks that date to 1996 (last time I shot ACE as my normal shaft) and they still shoot OK, I’d replace them to compete but structurally they are OK.

But yup, if anything is not working for you then try something else. My daughter is shooting Avalon Insert nocks on her Inspires and they seem fine (at 18#). Cheap too.

Stretch
 

mbaker74

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I have shot Easton pin nocks since I went to carbon arrows many years ago, and never had any problems apart from when I have damaged a nock by hitting it with another arrow...
I have been using Bohning pin nocks all winter though on a different set of arrows as I dropped poundage. They are definitely much cheaper, are a tight fit on easton pins, but once fitted no problems with them at all.....
 

Whitehart

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Just an aside there are a lot of Beiter forgeries out there be careful where you buy.

I always wondered why but there really is a lot of money to be made worldwide, recently I also saw some Bohning vane forgeries apart from a dodgy copywrite sign so hard to spot.

All come from China
 

Whitehart

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A good question - buy from a trusted source especially archery dealers that buy direct from Beiter or via the main distributors who also buy direct from Beiter. Neither source can afford to cheat the system the archery community is too small.

Some forgeries are very good until they are used long gone are the days of company names spelt wrong or colours being a bit off.
 

dvd8n

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A good question - buy from a trusted source especially archery dealers that buy direct from Beiter or via the main distributors who also buy direct from Beiter. Neither source can afford to cheat the system the archery community is too small.
Hmmmm. I did some research and it seems that I got them from eBay five years ago. The seller's a small seller that's still around, selling low volumes of archery gear, new and used, with pretty good feedback.

I'm wondering now, though.

I'm not going to name them as they may not be scammers; it may still have been a bad batch, they may have bought fakes by mistake in good faith themselves, or it may have been a problem with me or my setup.
 
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