A Barebow Question

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tony08

New member
A quick request for some advice here. When shooting barebow indoors at 20 yards it seems like '3 fingers under' and aiming off the tip gives a fairly good and consistent result.

However...

I want to use a med draw and anchor on the side of my face but don't know how I can aim?
The 'gap' is way below the boss, so I'm left looking for some kind of indication on my riser, which kind of defeats the object of not having a sight. My horizontal alignment isn't bad but the vertical had me 'taking out' one boss leg and the prop stick we use to give the netting support which is just visible above and beyond the bosses (a one in a million feat).

Is there any way to use this anchor and aim along the arrow? I ask, as I love this anchor position, it's very comfortable and feels very 'natural'. I just don't want to demolish the building in the process.

Thanks
Tony
 


tony08

New member
Have a look at articles on instinctive archery. I have seen this used in Canada with great results.:kyudo:
Hi Tox,
Do you have any good links? I've read a few esoteric things about instinctive archery but by its very nature it seems hard to define and most advice seems to be along the lines of "find what works for you", which is okay but where do you start - if you know what I mean?

I'm willing to give it a go, so any tips are welcome.
 


MarkH

New member
I have a similar problem. To get the arrrow pile on the gold at 20yds I have to string walk a LONG way down. I need to try a corner of mouth anchor as the under-chin anchor is so low the bow tune is miles out.

Have you tried a corner of mouth anchor, together with string walking? This should drop your impact point significantly.
 


English Bowman

Active member
Where are you aiming when shooting 3 fingers under?
By going to a mediterannian loose you shouldn't find that the aim mark changes too much. I aim at the bottom of the straw boss at 20 yds when shooting longbow, so I'd expect somewhere similar. Maybe between the bottom of the boss and the bottom of the target stand, but no lower than that. If you are aiming on the floor then there may be something else going on. It's hard to say without seeing you shoot, so get someone else, preferably an experianced barebow archer to watch you, and take it from there, or if not get some pictures taken and post them here.
 


Paul Thomas

New member
A quick request for some advice here. When shooting barebow indoors at 20 yards it seems like '3 fingers under' and aiming off the tip gives a fairly good and consistent result.

However...

I want to use a med draw and anchor on the side of my face but don't know how I can aim?
The 'gap' is way below the boss, so I'm left looking for some kind of indication on my riser, which kind of defeats the object of not having a sight. My horizontal alignment isn't bad but the vertical had me 'taking out' one boss leg and the prop stick we use to give the netting support which is just visible above and beyond the bosses (a one in a million feat).

Is there any way to use this anchor and aim along the arrow? I ask, as I love this anchor position, it's very comfortable and feels very 'natural'. I just don't want to demolish the building in the process.

Thanks
Tony
That sounds roughly like the anchor I use: Med draw, index finger touching corner of mouth plus thumb against bottom of jaw. As you've found, shooting a reasonable line is relatively easy as I can sight along the arrow. It's the up-down bit which is hard. The only way I've found is to practice, practice, practice and eventually it starts to fall into place. My coach also advised me not to shoot from any further back than I can confidently hit the boss. Maybe you could start off at about 10 yards and increase the distance as you get more confident?
 


tony08

New member
Where are you aiming when shooting 3 fingers under?
By going to a mediterannian loose you shouldn't find that the aim mark changes too much. I aim at the bottom of the straw boss at 20 yds when shooting longbow, so I'd expect somewhere similar. Maybe between the bottom of the boss and the bottom of the target stand, but no lower than that. If you are aiming on the floor then there may be something else going on. It's hard to say without seeing you shoot, so get someone else, preferably an experianced barebow archer to watch you, and take it from there, or if not get some pictures taken and post them here.
Hi E.B.,
When I shoot 3 under, I walk down to approx. 5mm below the nock and put the point on the gold, which does the trick at 20 yards. I anchor my middle finger to the corner of my mouth (as taught).

With trying a barebow med draw my 'natural/comfortable' anchor is more on the side of my face - back a tad from the mouth, but with the string still in front of my eye, so I use the blurry string to help line up with the arrow point. I'm quite broad shouldered and this seems to result in a comfortable position slightly behind the mouth - on the cheek.

This puts the arrow point somewhere below the legs, on the floor - hence my difficulty, as it's pure guesswork every time with appalling results.

I can't practice closer than 20 yards, as the indoor range is set up for everyone at that distance.

Has anyone tried anchoring near the ear (asiatic style) and/or using a thumb ring? Just wondering.
 


^HUN^

New member
Using the thumb would mean the arrow sits on the other side of the bow and would alter your aim totally.
Though there are many who say there is no such thing as instinctive, at 20 yards I would disagree. Our indoor targets are 18m and I have never used the pile or any form of gapping, I have only ever looked at the target. We shoot polo mints at this distance, obviously don't hit them every time but the results are generally very good.
 


tony08

New member
I have never used the pile or any form of gapping, I have only ever looked at the target. We shoot polo mints at this distance, obviously don't hit them every time but the results are generally very good.
Interesting Hun. What kind of draw and anchor do you use?
 


^HUN^

New member
A modified Sassanid draw with emphasis on third and ring finger. Index finger resting on the string above the arrow nock rather than around it as in Mediterranean or along the arrow shaft as in Sassanid.
Anchor is first knuckle of thumb where the jaw meets the ear.
 


tony08

New member
A modified Sassanid draw with emphasis on third and ring finger. Index finger resting on the string above the arrow nock rather than around it as in Mediterranean or along the arrow shaft as in Sassanid.
Anchor is first knuckle of thumb where the jaw meets the ear.
Do you use a thumb ring? I guess you'd also need slightly longer arrows and, as you said, the ability to shoot off the other side of the riser, which counts me out with my Winstar ll ... unless I get creative (read dangerous to all around me).

Most asiatic bows I've seen can be held in either hand. I think I read somewhere that many horsebow men were ambidextrous in any case and could swap hands in an instant. What kind do you use, if I may be so bold?
 


^HUN^

New member
The earliest thumb ring findings in the western steppes and Carpathian basin date to around the 7th C which would count out the Huns (a long time interest of mine) It is not conclusive evidence that this method was not used of course, but lack of findings does suggest that it was not, therefore I do not use the thumb draw. There are many reliefs that portray the Sassanid draw and their bows were very similar in design and dimension to the Hunnic bows, namely quite large, wide asymmetrical limbed with long siyahs.
I use Kassai's Hunnic model which seems to be based on the findings at the Niya cemeteries. I've only ever used Asiatic bows, Hunnic in particular and I find this one to be a very nice performer.
I am not familiar with 'modern' bows so forgive me for not knowing your bow, but I assume it has a riser with a window. You would need a left handed bow (assuming also that you are right handed) to use the thumb draw. It is not necessarily the case that you would need longer arrows though, Turkish arrows are only around 28". It depends again on where you choose to anchor.
 


Toxophilus_Archer

New member
A modified Sassanid draw with emphasis on third and ring finger. Index finger resting on the string above the arrow nock rather than around it as in Mediterranean or along the arrow shaft as in Sassanid.
Anchor is first knuckle of thumb where the jaw meets the ear.
Can you give a site where I can see this style of release as the sites I have seen from what i can see show it as what looks like a thumb release. Your explanation describes it as a finger release but using two fingers below the nock, I think.:kyudo:
 


tony08

New member
I'm also interested in a bit more info. Does the arrow rest on the 'thumb' side of the bow (as with a thumb ring), or on the 'hand' side?
How do you hold your thumb, so as to get a consistent anchor point each time and where does the little finger go?

From what you describe it sounds (virtually) like a med draw but with the nock between the ring and third finger, with those two fingers taking all the weight on draw. Is this correct?

Regards
Tony
 


^HUN^

New member
Google Image Result for http://www.payvand.com/news/05/jan/sassanid-king.jpg

The State Hermitage Museum: Collection Highlights

The index finger rests (supports?) on the arrow shaft, middle and ring fingers below the nock with little finger usually depicted as pointing forward. It is unclear which side of the bowhand the arrow was held, I shoot off the left as in Mediterranean.
Of course, towards the end of their dynasty there is also the possibility that the thumb draw had been adopted due to the influence of the Gokturks.

Bending only the tip of the thumb, with the first joint held against the base of the index knuckle, put your palm against your face and slide your hand upwards until your first thumb joint locates the area where your ear joins the jaw. You will find it fits neatly into that depression.
 


tony08

New member
Very interesting. I'll have to give it a go and see how I get on.

The bow on the second coin does look a lot like the traditional Hun bows you see on the market nowadays.

Perhaps Alexander would have had no chance, if the Persians had used this stuff back then.

Thanks
Tony
 


Joester

New member
If your form is good, and your instincts are good, you should (eventually) be able to get reasonable results by adopting a simple med. loose, anchor with the nock in the corner of the mouth and then 'using the force' (semi-instinctive).
Byron Ferguson 'the hair over the heart' stylee - will the arrow right into the middle of the gold.

Like I say, depends on how instinctive you can be with your archery, if you're bent on having something to tangible to aim at, learn to stingwalk.

I now walk the string, leaving my anchor point as it would be for my normal med. loose (nock in corner of the mouth turns into feeling the split of the tab across the mouth), a high anchor minimises the amount of walk needed, and leaves the loose feeling natural and balanced.

When I was 'using the force', I would scrape 500 Portsmouth on good days.
Now that I string walk, things are really coming along, and I'm now shooting 510 - 520 Portsmouths consistently, and still improving.

Getting the arrow point right smack-bang on the middle of gold is an encouraging method, and one that is easy to build upon. You also get nearer the middle each shot even if you're not on-form.
- I was at the barebow champs in Bangor last weekend, and although I was struggling with 'man flu' and severe tournament nerves, I still managed Silver (for the venue) because I was stringwalking.
If I had been med. loosing, I'd have been jiggered!
 


Chuck Denofrio

New member
I'd like to say, following what Joester has outlined, If you add to that arrow lenght and weight you can get point on at 20. I prefer 6 o'clock so that the gold is visable. ie; I shoot 30#s and am using 435g acc 328 at 31.5 w/145g points. Not what you would hunt big game with but it puts the point-on at 6 o;clock. For longer range, just change weight of arrow. I go to ace 670 255g. Now even with 30#s 100yds are not a problem.
 


addawire

New member
A lot of the barebow techniques are what was taught to us in the first lessons that we had at the club ie nock to the corner of the mouth and finger placement. Ask one of the coaches or even one of the experienced longbow shooters within the club, most people are only to happy to help.
In reference to your earlier comment about only being able to shoot at 20yards, this is not true only last night two members where shooting at shorter distances for a bit of a training excersise. They arrived early and assisted in setting up the bosses and mentioned that they wished to shoot at short distance, no problem. Be there to help setup and mention your requirements and you will find no problems.
 


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