[Horsebow] AFB/Horsebows acceptance in gnas

Rabid Hamster

Well-known member
Ironman
Perhaps the category just needs an appropriate name like "novelty" or "other":devil: to include any format not already catered for
novelty? .......... would that allow me to use one of these in a portsmouth?



line cutter 8 9 and 10 anyone? :D but I would imagine I'd need some extra packing at the back of the boss.
 


Arturo

New member
How can it be justifiable to exclude one of the world's most popular bows, the AFB, from GNAS target competition. Although I love shooting my ELB it is a difficult beast to master! Surely the AFB with its combination of modern materials with wood provide a much more user friendly introduction to the glorious world of wood and feathers.

I can't agree that more bow catetgories would dilute the quality of competition there are nine categories in the NFAS including the AFB and all seem well supported.
 


Rabid Hamster

Well-known member
Ironman
How can it be justifiable to exclude one of the world's most popular bows, the AFB, from GNAS target competition.
Even though I'm now arguing with myself (but thought I'd make the point) ... once you remove america from the equation ... is the afb still one of the worlds most popular bows? If we're talking traditional ancient/dark ages/medieval period european/asian bows here ... the AFB doesnt figure.
 


Arturo

New member
Even if you do "remove America from the equation" though I don't see why you should Americans are part of the human race (well just). The AFB is still very popular in Europe and Australia, in most parts of the world the AFB is the simply known as a "longbow".

All I'm really arguing is that British target archers who prefer more traditional kit and methods should have more options other than the ELB. I fully agree that the horsbow should also be an alternative along with the AFB.
 


Rabid Hamster

Well-known member
Ironman
Even if you do "remove America from the equation" though I don't see why you should Americans are part of the human race (well just). The AFB is still very popular in Europe and Australia, in most parts of the world the AFB is the simply known as a "longbow".

All I'm really arguing is that British target archers who prefer more traditional kit and methods should have more options other than the ELB. I fully agree that the horsbow should also be an alternative along with the AFB.
Sorry ... think you missed the earlier point that Murray made that 'trad' archery wasnt 'our' trad archery... and then my slightly later point about the horse/longbow/yumi/indian bamboo bows all having faced off against each other over the centuries and should be allowed to do so again. The AFB being somewhat seperated by time and a filthy great ocean from those warry opponents.

ps: the vast majority of my heroes are american (cause of american football) and I wasnt excluding them for the usual reasons although we probably would have found, had there been armericans at agincourt (the next hollywood blockbuster with Ben Affleck?), they would have launched an arrow storm into their own men-at-arms ;).
 


steve58

New member
Does anyone actually know for sure how many archers shoot the different bowstyles? Reading the thread quickly I get the impression that it's very local, certainly in my neck of the woods I see few longbows at target shoots and other trad styles are as common as rocking horse poo.
 


mk1

It's an X
Supporter
"Rules" in a nutshell

A helpful page - Awards & Bowstyle FAQ's

Forgive my ignorance, but do those shooting these trad bows really want to stand on a target field and shoot a full Double York for a Rose badge and a placing - I thought they were shot "for fun" I can see the point of "being trad" on a field course wich is why I would surmise the GNArcheryGB Rules are the way they are.

:rottentom
 


English Bowman

Active member
SPLITTER!

To be honest (excluding the AFB for a moment), I'd be all for having a single "traditional" (ie no sights, back of the hand/thumb rest & ring, woodie arrow) class encompassing all the old school archery bows from 6th century BC assyrian to 17th century japanese and let them fight it out for supremacy!
Let the real ale and beardy types (no offence intended if you like real ale) prove their assertion the longbow was that [email protected] good!
Unlike medieval swordsmanship (which had to deal with huge changes fairly quickly), over 2000 years of archery things arent that different - it has to address the same issues.
As a keen ELB shooter I'd agree with you there. I wouldn't be happy up against AFBs because of the arrow-shelf and man-made fibres, but they'd be excluded due to being a relatively modern bow. I think that IFAA already do this as the Historical Class
 


Whitehart

Well-known member
I enjoy shooting horse bows IMO they are a bridge/link between a longbow and a recurve, I think that many who shoot recurve but sometimes would like to shoot something more simple would feel more at home and find it easier with a horse bow than a longbow and be a lot more accurate to.

Perhaps if it were accepted as a class the number of longbow archers would decline.

I suppose the same could be said of the AFB maybe a new class of "foreign upstarts" could be formed. I mean Robin Hood used to shoot one I have some ancient videearo tarp somewhere :)
 


bkupris

The American
Supporter
American Shoot
Ahhh good thread :) Talking about shooting a York or other long target round I would rather shoot an AFB or horsebow vs an ELB. Saying that, personally I would stick to the slightly shorter rounds for all those bows to save my back and have a chance of putting a few arrows on the target boss.

I could be wrong but "historically" I think the AFB and horsebow were used mainly at close range. Happy to be corrected on this though :)
 


Rabid Hamster

Well-known member
Ironman
not sure I EVER want to shoot a double york as mk suggests even with my recurve let alone a horsebow but as I already shoot portsmouths ... an american may be next. think of it as lots of practice repetition at a specific range with scoring

Brian: Most of the scholars who do experimental archaeology (ie try it out and see what happens) think pull weights werent that great. much is made of the turkish bow which has fairly huge pull weights but why would you need a horse bow with more than 45-50lbs? the horse gets you close to the action and then out of there in a hurry if needed.

Sample horsebow attack
You ride up to 50yrds - ride along the front of the enemy formation shooting, if you run out of arrows - go get some more.
Possible results
Enemy stands: Keep shooting. poor quality/overly aggressive troops will do something stupid eventually
Enemy starts to wobble: charge home, they will break and run. slaughter and mayhem!
The enemy charges you: you ride away shooting behind you (parthian shot) enticing him further from his support till you can cut them off - surround them and slaughter them with shots from all angles.
Thats the tactics of every single light horse and bow attack from skythians (300bc) to mongols (1500ad). No need for 200lbs pull weight horsebows so a york is going to be a problem ... but then again, no one is going to let us ride a horse up to the 100yrd york target, shoot at 10 yrds then return to the shooting line now are they? ;) :D
 


bkupris

The American
Supporter
American Shoot
Historically doesn't really count for the AFB since it was invented in the 1930s as far as I know.
I am probably digging a hole for myself but here goes :) Isn't the AFB based on American Indian bows of days past ie. the Sudbury bow from Massachusetts circa 1660?
 


English Bowman

Active member
I am probably digging a hole for myself but here goes :) Isn't the AFB based on American Indian bows of days past ie. the Sudbury bow from Massachusetts circa 1660?
Partially yes, but they didn't have man made laminates and I don't believe that they were cut towards centre, and had an arrow shelf. The arrow shelf makes a huge difference. I'd have no problem with people using American Indian style bows, without an arrow shelf.
 


bkupris

The American
Supporter
American Shoot
Partially yes, but they didn't have man made laminates and I don't believe that they were cut towards centre, and had an arrow shelf. The arrow shelf makes a huge difference. I'd have no problem with people using American Indian style bows, without an arrow shelf.
Point taken :)
 


Skybone

New member
The KG Archery Cobra is based on the Sudbury bow, and OK, though it uses laminates, doesn't have an arrow shelf.
 


Rabid Hamster

Well-known member
Ironman
The KG Archery Cobra is based on the Sudbury bow, and OK, though it uses laminates, doesn't have an arrow shelf.
The KG Archery Cobra looks quite unsophisticated if not truly basic when compared to a classic mongol of say Grozer's design. The big question is would the hi-tech laminate compensate for the mongols trad-tech efficiency. I guess leading to judges needing to trained in material analysis and historical accuracy.
 


bkupris

The American
Supporter
American Shoot
begs the question were the "original" ELB's laminated etc?... It all comes down to splitting hairs sometimes...
 


bkupris

The American
Supporter
American Shoot
Actually I own a KG Cobra, it's a cool bow but a pig to shoot. Anybody fancy a go with it your more than welcome.
 


steve58

New member
A helpful page - Awards & Bowstyle FAQ's

Forgive my ignorance, but do those shooting these trad bows really want to stand on a target field and shoot a full Double York for a Rose badge and a placing - I thought they were shot "for fun" I can see the point of "being trad" on a field course wich is why I would surmise the GNArcheryGB Rules are the way they are.

:rottentom
Oh dear, I do hope AntiqueArcher doesn't see this! (Assuming you lump ELB in with "trad")

Personally I shoot ELB, I shoot target. Shooting a York IS FUN!
 


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