AGB Advice for returning to shooting 13/5/20

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
Thats only an example risk assessment. You're supposed to write your own. Whoever wrote that obviously has shares in JVD. Whatever sort of pins you use or can get, write that into your risk assessment
Yes, absolutely, AGBs assessment is an example.

Use that RA as a starting point. Take out any hazards not applicable to your club and add any that you think apply to you that aren't in the example. For example, take out the one about toilets if your club doesn't have any. Add one about cross contamination from door handles if your kit is stored in a shared cupboard. Etc etc.

Think about risks "Risks", how risky they are (score 1-6) and how to mitigate them "Controls", and what that new risk score is (1-6). If the risk is still 5 or 6 then you need to be doing better; think about how to mitigate the risk better or avoid the activity completely. If you can't eliminate 5s and 6s then it's too risky to shoot.

The one about "own target faces to be used" is a mistake by AGB. That's not a hazard, it's a mitigation. It should really be set out in the RA something along the lines of (I'm paraphrasing):
Hazard: cross contamination from shared pins and faces
Control: own faces and own JVD pins to be used

But understand that the "own JVD pins and faces" doesn't need to be the mitigation just because it is in the example; it could be to "wear marigolds while pulling arrows". Or it could be "own pins and faces" without a make of pins specified. Estimate the risk with your mitigation (1-6) and evaluate if it's safe to shoot.
 
Last edited:

Stretch

Active member
There are loads of this type of pin available on eBay if your normal dealers are out of stock. It’s not a recommendation (I like the Beiter pins myself) but crap pins better than no pins ;)

Stretch
 

olis

Supporter
Supporter
I have just been thinking about handing out club faces to archers before they shoot. AGB mention archers buying their own, which should be safe.
Handing out faces is not that simple. Gloves don't help.
Archers picking up the top one from a pile is likely to lead to fingers getting onto the one directly below.
Could be "Wash your hands first before removing the top face".
If that face could have been infected already, it will need to be cleaned before being picked up.
Or perhaps spread them all out and clean them all before anyone collects one.
If it is important to take faces away at the end; then it is also important to get a clean one at the start.
I have picked out this quote to make a more general point about risk (sorry Geoff) which is: keep it real!
Having your own target face is sensible and so is not sharing any of your equipment or your personal space.
My job is in delivery and has been throughout the current crisis and I spend all day handling stuff which is then given to others. I wear gloves to protect me (mainly because with gloves on you are much more aware about touching your face) but I really don't think I am wandering about infecting everyone I deliver to. This stuff is not a nerve agent or plutonium so just keep it sensible, I think.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think the key to your message lies in this................ but I really don't think I am wandering about infecting everyone I deliver to.
How many, who have suffered from and survived Covid-19 knew they could have been infecting others after they caught the virus and before they felt ill?
I thought that one of the dangers with this virus was the long incubation and the ability to spread it around while feeling perfectly well.
We assume everyone has it and that many things could be contaminated.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
I think the key to your message lies in this................ but I really don't think I am wandering about infecting everyone I deliver to.
How many, who have suffered from and survived Covid-19 knew they could have been infecting others after they caught the virus and before they felt ill?
I thought that one of the dangers with this virus was the long incubation and the ability to spread it around while feeling perfectly well.
We assume everyone has it and that many things could be contaminated.
But you do have to remember that contamination doesn't last forever, on some surfaces the virus lasts only hours; and that there is a difference between being able to detect the virus on a surface and for there to be enough virus to cause an infection. One of the reasons why regular washing hands/santitiser is recommended is that it removes virus from your hands and keeps any level on your hands low.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Thanks Bimble, yes I agree.
I suppose I need to clarify/remember that the danger of contamination from touching things is at its highest when the item has recently been touched by someone who is infected. In archery terms that will be at changing target faces time, I would guess.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Thanks Bimble, yes I agree.
I suppose I need to clarify/remember that the danger of contamination from touching things is at its highest when the item has recently been touched by someone who is infected. In archery terms that will be at changing target faces time, I would guess.
and then touching your face... which is something a lot of people can do without even thinking. Part of the reason for regular washing of hands is so they're clean for when you do touch your face without thinking. That's one of the reasons for the full face shields that frontline NHS staff use. It keeps direct splutter off their face, but also means they can't accidentally touch their face with a contaminated hand.

Just writing this I've touched my face maybe three times (pushing glasses up my nose, rested chin on my hand)...
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
Just writing this I've touched my face maybe three times (pushing glasses up my nose, rested chin on my hand)...
I think this is probably the biggest contact risk, especially for people who work in offices. I spend half my desk time with my chin on my hand. I wear glasses to shoot now. It will be a big issue for me.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
and then touching your face... which is something a lot of people can do without even thinking. Part of the reason for regular washing of hands is so they're clean for when you do touch your face without thinking. That's one of the reasons for the full face shields that frontline NHS staff use. It keeps direct splutter off their face, but also means they can't accidentally touch their face with a contaminated hand.

Just writing this I've touched my face maybe three times (pushing glasses up my nose, rested chin on my hand)...
Perhaps hand sanitiser should be made so that it coats the hands with a black dye so if you touch your face.........
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
One of the reasons why regular washing hands/santitiser is recommended is that it removes virus from your hands and keeps any level on your hands low.
Yes, that is true, but another serious reason for washing hands frequently is to remove the risk from putting hands to the face,
Hands to face moves are going to happen. Face masks reduce that risk a little. Wearing gloves tends to make us think before touching our face and reduced how often we do. The gloves don't stop the virus, they get covered if they touch a contaminated surface, but with them on, we are less likely to touch them to our face.
Many people adhere to the guidelines and some don't. Look at the people going the wrong way round the supermarket.
It is not always deliberate. We can set off intending to follow the arrows, then miss something and turn round automatically to go back for it.
Many of the posts in this thread have taken a lot of time to put into words; and a lot of thought to get them right. It seems like the planning is complicated and time consuming, but the actual implementing is less so.
But a bit of time spent at a keyboard, trying to get the best use from the plans we are formulating, must be worth something.
Supporting NHS by clapping on a Thursday at 8pm? Shows support but doesn't stop the virus from spreading.
Doing something to reduce the spread is the least we can do. Some have done far more............
 

Mark2

Member
The risk assessment handed down by AGB states only JVD or Beiter pinch pins are to be used - we as a club have never used those pins and of course our equipment manager has today failed to find a supplier with any in stock.
Karl
I can't see why you can't use other pinch style pins. The RA says ask for JVD or Beiter, but it does not prohibit other pinch pins from being used, especially where the archer or club has decided others on the market offer the same or better benefits over the JVD. It should be enough to state pinch pins "in the style of".

I would say those pinch pins with a guard or push shelf are better than the JVDs, which allow the fingers to slide onto the target face.

There are discussions here regarding the methods for handing out of faces at the club. If you read that much into the document, the risk assessment does say without any confusion that faces and pins MUST be brought to the club by the archer. This is stated 3 times and they even put MUST in capital letters.
 

Big George

Supporter
Supporter
There are discussions here regarding the methods for handing out of faces at the club. If you read that much into the document, the risk assessment does say without any confusion that faces and pins MUST be brought to the club by the archer. This is stated 3 times and they even put MUST in capital letters.
There is no reason why a clubs RA can’t state that they will supply a suitable face (depending on what the archer wants to shoot) and that once given out the archer must take home and bring it to each session, the same with pins.
The club will need a safe way to give out the equipment initially but once done it will meet their RA (E.g. pliers/tongs to set pins out in groups of 4, similarly to pick target faces out of a pile, equipment to be cleaned between use. Minimises human contact with pins and faces being given out).

The ArcheryGB RA is a template that clubs will need to adapt to their own circumstances. Risk Assessments should not be taken from elsewhere without being reviewed and changed according to local needs, that is a recipe for disaster.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Risk Assessments should not be taken from elsewhere without being reviewed and changed according to local needs, that is a recipe for disaster.
I think you are absolutely right on that one. I would add that the posts on this thread are probably going to help in sorting the practicalities of the tasks, too.
The principle of STAY ALERT is very important. It is so easy, for those of us who have avoided the infection for so long, to start to feel safe.
When people have put their minds into planning what they will and won't do; they are far more likely to stick to their rules.
In a similar way, if club committees do a lot of planning, it could all fall on deaf ears if the club members haven't got their minds into the same level of caution.
For that reason, I feel the shooting should be as " unlike routine" as possible. It doesn't have to be unpleasant but won't archers just be glad to shoot some arrows after such a long time without.
AGB stress that this is not Normal Shooting. I agree with that. It shouldn't even get close to normal.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AGB...Toilets may be used in an absolute emergency...
Is it not always an absolute emergency? :)

AGB stress that this is not Normal Shooting. I agree with that. It shouldn't even get close to normal.
Initially I was against shooting starting. Now I'm not so sure. Opening up before a vaccine is always going to be a risk but it seems many people are taking this seriously. It's doubtful if we could stay in lockdown in the hope that a vaccine arrives as it's still months away if then. I think my only addition to the rules would be to have an active 'Track & Trace' app on your phone to help highlight contact issues. Not everyone will have a smart phone but it might help speed contact issues in a club.
 
Last edited:

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
My club opens this Sunday for the first time. I have booked a boss, requesting 50m, hinting that I feel it's not appropriate to be looking for arrows.
This is my biggest fear, actually, that people aren't sensible about their abilities and insist on shooting their usual distances which would normally require a dozen of us traipsing the field. Which of course will not be happening now. So I can see us shooting one end and getting nothing else shot for an hour if certain people turn up. Might take a chair.
I'll be taking my own target, pins, sanitiser, gloves and mask, because I have them and don't want to bring unnecessary costs to the club.
It may prove unworkable. But I understand the local football club who also rent the ground from the council are absolutely livid because we have been able, thanks to AGB's risk assessment framework and structures, to convince the council landlord we can operate safely (and they will be checking), and they have not.
*Smugmode*
 

Big George

Supporter
Supporter
My club opens this Sunday for the first time. I have booked a boss, requesting 50m, hinting that I feel it's not appropriate to be looking for arrows.
This is my biggest fear, actually, that people aren't sensible about their abilities and insist on shooting their usual distances which would normally require a dozen of us traipsing the field. Which of course will not be happening now. So I can see us shooting one end and getting nothing else shot for an hour if certain people turn up. Might take a chair.
I'll be taking my own target, pins, sanitiser, gloves and mask, because I have them and don't want to bring unnecessary costs to the club.
It may prove unworkable. But I understand the local football club who also rent the ground from the council are absolutely livid because we have been able, thanks to AGB's risk assessment framework and structures, to convince the council landlord we can operate safely (and they will be checking), and they have not.
*Smugmode*
“Lost” arrows to be collected at the end of their time Slot? Depending on your committee/range captain, rules could be set so that if people shot and consistently miss they are not allowed beyond a certain target distance.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
AGB want archers to shoot as many arrows as possible; six at a time not three, twice. I think that means wasting as little time on the non shooting aspects of archery. I would include scoring in that list, and not shooting very much further than the majority. Holding up the shooting line for one archer who is playing to normal rules isn't in the spirit of things in my view.
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
No indeed. But I have not set the range rules and must wait till Sunday to discover the minutiae.
 

Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
“Lost” arrows to be collected at the end of their time Slot? Depending on your committee/range captain, rules could be set so that if people shot and consistently miss they are not allowed beyond a certain target distance.
Ha! So some of my fellow club members shoot two ends and have to sit about for 3 hours, if permitted to shoot their usual distances. This might actually bring a few people to their senses about their abilities, they'll shoot shorter distances, they'll get a lot more arrows shot and will make a goodly step forward...hmmm, interesting....
 

Corax67

Well-known member
We start back tomorrow morning - all archers limited to a max target distance of 60yds but of the 14 or so members who have confirmed their attendance (acceptance of RA, etc) the preferred distance is 30m or 40yds, comments are primarily “I’m rusty and want to break myself in gently”.

Lost arrows on our site will be searched for by the 2 person field team (who did all the setting up) with metal detectors after each end, not anticipating too many issues but we can tweak as we go along.

As we always shoot 6 per end other than for Frostbite then the AGB suggestion doesn’t impact us.



Karl
 
Top