AGB Advice for returning to shooting 13/5/20

johnnybeta

Member
Ironman
For Booking systems (we've >100 members - for now anyway, obv. we don;t know how many we'll have lost coming out the end of this): we're currently circling around: fastcourts Free court booking system for tennis, squash, racketball and other sports clubs (paid but sleek and easy, designed with sports like tennis / badminto in mind but a court is easily translatable into a target/shooting lane) and picktime Online Free Appointment Scheduling Software | Booking Software | Calendar Management System | Picktime (free but appears slightly clunkier: a resource becomes a target / lane)
 

bimble

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How are other clubs dealing with the instruction by AGB that targets should not be moved during a session?
Ours are all have wheels so are moveable by one person, though I believe we're going to be setting them out and requesting that people don't move them, and if they do, to return them to their starting distance when they've finished... whether that actually happens is a different question.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
AGB seems to have overlooked something - finding lost arrows !

Our field is shared so no arrows can be unaccounted for at the end of a session & our normal routine is everyone does a walking visual arrow sweep after each end then the metal detectors or rakes come out for stubbornly lost arrows.

If everyone has to find their own arrows it’s going to make things tough, especially for the least experienced archers who are likely to have more misses.

I foresee the setup crew also ending up being the metal detector crew too.


Thoughts......??


Karl
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
Make sure archers only shoot distances they can be relied on to hit the boss - some shooting in the fresh air is better than none.

Teach people to find arrows rather than wandering up and down aimlessly, unless an arrow ricochets off a boss it only travels 10 to 20 yards behind (recurve).

I had an issue last year where I kept shooting an odd arrow off the top of the button... but you could find it shooting at 70m in the exact same place each time behind the target.

Compound is harder though and probably needs the "wand of shame" :)
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Make sure archers only shoot distances they can be relied on to hit the boss - some shooting in the fresh air is better than none.
Even at 30m (frostbite) we get flyers that need hunting out but hopefully people will self regulate their distances.



Karl
 

bimble

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Make sure archers only shoot distances they can be relied on to hit the boss - some shooting in the fresh air is better than none.
Reminds me of what I think was quite a heated thread (that I can't find) about whether people should be allowed to move up a distance until they could demonstrate an ability to hit the boss more often than not at a shorter distance.
 

KidCurry

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No shooting for our club yet :( That's cool. I think the committee made a good call. We have a small gate to the small enclosed field, tight behind the shooting line. As most people can only shoot weekends, with the small field many would not be able to shoot. Time to go fishing :)
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think that we need to remind and be reminded, that these are not normal shooting sessions, they are emergency restricted and that time will be precious. I think it would be unfair to keep the line waiting while looking for too many lost arrows. I also feel that shooting longer distances than the majority and scoring arrows, could lead to others being kept waiting when they are limited for time already. I think bosses should be set at whatever distances and left there until they are put away.
For some, I guess a target face would not be necessary; a paper plate and one pin or blank boss. Perhaps a plastic bin liner cut open and made into a screen for the boss. easier to clean during the session and can be disposed of afterwards.The shooting will be very different from normal and just shooting some arrows will feel like heaven. Why clutter things with scores??
 

dvd8n

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I think that we need to remind and be reminded, that these are not normal shooting sessions, they are emergency restricted and that time will be precious. I think it would be unfair to keep the line waiting while looking for too many lost arrows. I also feel that shooting longer distances than the majority and scoring arrows, could lead to others being kept waiting when they are limited for time already. I think bosses should be set at whatever distances and left there until they are put away.
For some, I guess a target face would not be necessary; a paper plate and one pin or blank boss. Perhaps a plastic bin liner cut open and made into a screen for the boss. easier to clean during the session and can be disposed of afterwards.The shooting will be very different from normal and just shooting some arrows will feel like heaven. Why clutter things with scores??
I think you are right. Put the targets up close and don't mess about at the bosses.
 

Kerf

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We’ve decided not to allow access to our club field while we try to work out how to open it up and allow shooting safely regarding hygiene.
Our frames and bosses cannot be left out permanently and because of where they (and keys) are stored someone setting up just one boss would have to touch no less than five gates/doors as well as the frame and the boss. We’re not a rich club so acquiring industrial quantities of gloves, other PPE, gels and wipes might be beyond us.
Working out the logistics is proving difficult. I’ll keep watching here for what others are doing to try to get some inspiration!
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
We're lucky to have a field that we can use virtually 24/7 so we've decided that members can book on to the range any time they like. We're issuing keys to all our members.
However we can't leave bosses out due to vandalism. This means each member is responsible for putting their own boss up and putting it away after them, with the help of one other if necessary. We're providing face masks and hand sanitiser and paper towels to mitigate the very minor risk of two people putting up a boss.
Facemasks (disposable) are under £10 for 50. Hand gel is the expensive item. We've spent over £130 on that (3 x 500ml pump action bottles and 2 x 5L refills). The big reels of blue paper towels are 6 for £10
We've had to buy more big target faces as our whole stock is in the container at the school which is closed and locked up. Thats another £100+
Our club web person has written a simple booking system to accomodate our unusual usage.

We had our first club meeting by Zoom and probably the highest club meeting turn out in years. I hope we can continue doing meetings like this forever
 

AndyS

Supporter
Supporter
We're lucky to have a field that we can use virtually 24/7 so we've decided that members can book on to the range any time they like. We're issuing keys to all our members.
However we can't leave bosses out due to vandalism. This means each member is responsible for putting their own boss up and putting it away after them, with the help of one other if necessary. We're providing face masks and hand sanitiser and paper towels to mitigate the very minor risk of two people putting up a boss.
Facemasks (disposable) are under £10 for 50. Hand gel is the expensive item. We've spent over £130 on that (3 x 500ml pump action bottles and 2 x 5L refills). The big reels of blue paper towels are 6 for £10
We've had to buy more big target faces as our whole stock is in the container at the school which is closed and locked up. Thats another £100+
We're in a very similar situation and are planning a very similar response to boss moving, though are requesting members to provide their own "face coverings" in line with government recommendations for when "social distancing can't be maintained", and only allowing one at a time inside the container.
We are now finalizing our club guidelines and waiting for surface sanitiser sprays and blue rolls to turn up and join the hand sanitiser before we open bookings.
Luckily our outdoor faces don't travel to our indoor venue so we were OK for those and pins.

For booking, one of our committee members turned up "ClubEvent" which can be used from a browser and has Android & Apple Apps.
The developer (also an archer) has made the second level of upgrade free due to the current COVID-19 situation, which gives a significant increase in the number of admins, members and "tickets" over what is available in the usual "free" version.
Although it was a little buggy to begin with, I'm told the developer has been impressively responsive to fixing issues, and this now looks to be working well.
To work with this system we're planning on making 2hr timeslots available for booking through the day.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I feel very much at odds with the majority with respect to starting to shoot again.
After two or three months without shooting, I am thinking that I would be more than overjoyed, just to be able to shoot some arrows. I would happily shoot them into the grass apart from the fact it would waste other archers' time while I try finding them.
I would be more than happy to shoot at a paper plate and use one target pin. Not because it's cheaper, but the risks are fewer.
Why would anyone want to waste their valuable time scoring? Why would those who aren't scoring want to be kept waiting while others score arrows?
Having watched shoppers going the wrong way following arrows on the floor, I feel that there is a real danger that making archery as much like normal as possible actually increases the risks that we will creep back into old ways.
My feelings are that it should feel as different as possible, apart from making our shots.
Making it feel different helps to keep us in the "stay alert" mind set.
 

bimble

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if it makes you feel any better Geoff, I know myself (and a few others I've talked to) still have no intention of going back down the range just because it's open. The government saying we should rely on the British public's common sense to keep ourselves safe just goes to show how out of touch they are... remember in 2018 when people called the police because KFC ran out of chicken...

Having seen some people's home "ranges" common sense isn't something that's always applied...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Bimble,
Thank you for your post. That has to be one of the most reassuring posts I have had written to me recently. I am beginning to think I am out of touch with reality.
AGB has stressed that this is not going to be normal shooting. If archers turn up and can't tell the difference, other than wider spaces between bosses, there is a strong chance they will fall into "normal practice".
That is safe enough when considering the rules of shooting; but this situation has a greater danger than anything that has been considered in those rules.
The most likely lapse is hand contact with something followed by the hand going to the face. Gloves are no help in that situation.
I can just imagine a score pad coming out and a head being scratched or the pencil getting a lick!! Turning to a new page in the score pad...lick the fingers!!
I think it is a mind set thing; I know my mind set is already feeling at risk.
I have read a lot of messages in various places on this topic. They are almost entirely about lanes and timetables.
Both of those are vitally important and need to be sorted. But they are the " large " things that are easier to manage.
Contacts are so easy to overlook; washing etc is a start but again that can be set up in full view as a reminder.
What happens about first aiders? Will they be there ready to attend to possible carriers who need some help?
 

LAC Mark

Active member
What happens about first aiders? Will they be there ready to attend to possible carriers who need some help?
I can tell you that St John's have published advise for first aiders, they have advised that treatment for an unresponsive casualty should not include breaths (mouth to mouth), only chest compressions.
I admit I haven't read all of their COVID 19 recommendations, but normal advise is to ware gloves when treating a casualty anyway.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
I feel very much at odds with the majority with respect to starting to shoot again.
After two or three months without shooting, I am thinking that I would be more than overjoyed, just to be able to shoot some arrows. I would happily shoot them into the grass apart from the fact it would waste other archers' time while I try finding them.
I would be more than happy to shoot at a paper plate and use one target pin. Not because it's cheaper, but the risks are fewer.
Why would anyone want to waste their valuable time scoring? Why would those who aren't scoring want to be kept waiting while others score arrows?
Having watched shoppers going the wrong way following arrows on the floor, I feel that there is a real danger that making archery as much like normal as possible actually increases the risks that we will creep back into old ways.
My feelings are that it should feel as different as possible, apart from making our shots.
Making it feel different helps to keep us in the "stay alert" mind set.
Hi Geoff,
you obviously know your archery peers better than you'd like too :)
Personally, I'm enjoying the organising of the return (because I'm a bit of a dictator) but I'm on the shielded persons list so I wont be going shooting myself.
Each to their own eh
I'm just glad to not be teaching beginners any more
Ben
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Geoff,
you obviously know your archery peers better than you'd like too :)
Personally, I'm enjoying the organising of the return (because I'm a bit of a dictator) but I'm on the shielded persons list so I wont be going shooting myself.
Each to their own eh
I'm just glad to not be teaching beginners any more
Ben
I see the organising as a challenge as I am on the club committee. I don't wish to insinuate that anyone is not taking things seriously; I know they are. My concern is that trying to give archers a taste of shooting "as it is normally." with scores and rounds and extras like that, could lead to unexpected consequences.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
LAC Mark, thanks for that.
Yes gloves are standard practice. Most of our first aiders had just finished their training course when lock down started so I don't think anyone has ever been called on to use their new skills.
When routines like "gloves off,wash hands" etc are not established, it can lead to a natural reaction; and a dangerous one.
 
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