AGB Membership Fees 20/21

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I think coaching is one area where AGB coaching fails the sport. Coaching seems to be Recurve or nothing. As a beginner you generally start as barebow but not as a discipline but as a starting point. Then they progress to recurve and that's it. I have not come across any Level 1/2 coaches that are competent to teach compound beyond Bowman and most seem to be scared witless of the bow. There also seems to be a lack of competent barebow coaches but this may be because it is still developing as a popular discipline. Longbow seems to be lacking completely. I would like to see specialist coaching programmes for coaching these styles at a price that doesn't rely on club funding.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I think a coach who does not shoot compound would normally feel "out of their depth" trying to help anyone to shoot one. I can understand that. It also seems to me that some longer established archers are reluctant to accept compounds, and that just makes matters worse.
Longbow archery seems to be treated with disrespect to the point where it appears the thinking is they won't need to be coached; they can get on well enough with a bit of help from a more experienced longbow archer. Barebow seems to be treated in a similar way.
On the other side of this "coin" there does seem to be a reluctance in some longbow archers towards being helped. There seems to be quite a few who want to teach themselves. I can't see anything wrong in that, unless they were a danger to others or perhaps, themselves.
One problem that underlies all this could be the fact that Olympics only allow one discipline, so that gets all the limelight.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Jerry I think you will find that Matt's choice of release aid was made after reading posts on this forum.
I am not sure whether there was anyone showing him how to shoot compound on his beginners' course.
I don't think so either beginners courses funnel the archer to target recurve and I don't know how to change that.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I would imagine that target recurve gets most of the attention, because it gets most of the attention.
Yes, that was deliberately written like that,heehee.
If I have read my history correctly, archery as a sport as we know it, started with the upper classes( including royalty) at grand mansions on well kept lawns. Horace Ford wanted to standardise the shooting at tournaments so archers would know what to expect if and when they travelled to other venues.
Things dwindled for some reason, but later there was a new upsurge after archery featured in the Olympics of 1900. Target archery with longbows, slowly changed to " with recurves"...... possibly becoming popular because of the ease of drawing and the speed of the arrows shot from them.
Any resistance to change was probably viewed as " stuck in the past". When compounds came along, there was a huge step forward, and some grabbed at them while others were probably a bit shy. Being so different from what was common at the time would be treated in a way similar to that of electric vehicles these days. It's a step too far for some. Imagine all the garage mechanics who are now experts and experienced, and close to retirement. I guess many in that position will want to finish on a high, dealing with petrol and Diesel cars.
I guess compound coaches need training as do the garage mechanics who will embrace electric vehicles.
Anyone who is a little put off by compounds cannot see how similar they are to shooting any other bow type. Coaching does not have to be so totally different but finding out what needs to be included as "new learning" cannot be imagined, it has to be experienced. I know archers who just refuse to listen. And that is their choice.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
Again, these complaints about coaching depend on the club. At the club that I started with, Fort Purbrook, I was taught to shoot and coached by coaches who shot all styles, particularly longbow. They arranged visits to local field archery clubs and promoted all styles of the sport. When I became a coach and took over as head coach at the club, I continued this way of teaching.
I shoot all styles, but mainly longbow and am happy to coach all styles, although again longbow is my speciality.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Jerry and Geoff; my coach was a good compound archer.
The release “error” was a combination of things; I’d shot a 144 arrow round with a cheap wrist release which stretched. I want a release that pulled the d-loop much closer so a hand held seemed like a good idea. I tried a couple with mixed results, thought a thumb trigger would be a sort of “safe” hand held, initially got 5 golds (out of 6 ) at 60 yards, then it all fell apart completely.

So I went back to a high quality wrist release (bought from a member here) and that was the end of that issue; more or less.
My only wobbles now are a slightly inconsistent last inch or so of my draw; but that’s a minor problem.
 
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geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Matt, Thanks for the clarification. I was clearly wrong about your coaching.
From your post above it seems to me that you were unfortunate when you were at a sensitive stage in your learning.
Sometimes things like that can be difficult to anticipate or resolve.
A sneeze from behind you, just at the point of triggering, can be almost as devastating; and in some cases, long lasting.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Yep that was it really. I think I got the basics nailed quite quickly and made the fairly silly mistake of throwing money at getting better.
Changed my bow, sights, rest, etc which was mostly okay, got ACGs for long range which were a revelation then decided on a release change; four lost ACGs and a lot of wobbles and my confidence just collapsed.

I then pulled myself out of it, managed to beat my coach and the rest of the club at one particular session, clearly put noses out of joint, decided I’d had enough of the clique and stuffiness, plus my poor son was almost left out, so I just stopped. We’d started doing field archery and the format, child friendliness and general “vibe” were so much better. So we’re field only now.

We don’t shoot loads and I have definite dips but overall we seem to have struck a fairly good balance. We were out this morning shooting a new club mini tournament; all went well until it started to rain! We’ll finish when we can.
 

4d4m

Active member
KC "When I looked at the sport it was more expensive than archery. "

No, I don't mean equipment. just Affiliation and club. I shoot/was shooting at least 4x a week. Both archery clubs I have been a full member of charged about £50/yr with no target/shooting fees. In contrast the air rifle clubs charged shooting fees. I don't remember the fee but it was more than £1/day. = £4+/week = £180/yr which dwarfed the membership fees. Other people in other areas will no doubt have different findings :)
That varies hugely. My air rifle club charges £50 per annum for free access to the facilities year round. The facilities are a covered zero/plinking range, club house, permanent FT and HFT courses set out in woodland, and changed round every few weeks, pellets at more or less cost price per tin and access to any "informal" coaching you want for free; and frequently unsolicited! :D. Caveat emptor of course as some shooters are better than others, some are better shooters than coaches and some are neither. :)

A member and want to shoot local/regional competitions? You're in, just turn up and pay your entry fee (£6 is typical). Want to shoot national competitions (FT)? You need a BFTA card, cost you another fiver a year, arranged through the club.

The kit cost comparisons were a little misleading. The Inno CXT etc Karl mentioned is fairly high end kit but the S410 is distinctly mid range for HFT, and mid to lower for FT. Really high end kit for FT you're looking at over £4-5k (Steyr, Anschutz, FWB, AA FTP900 plus a March on top), low end maybe £500. Mid range if you're buying used, £1200-£1300 for an EV2/FTP and a Big Nikko.

It's interesting though, the NSRA (National Smallbore Rifle Association) are I think NGB for some paper target competitions, but have no NGB role for FT/HFT though they provide the insurance scheme for a lot of clubs. They are proposing to be requiring all club members insured to stump up some kind of associate NSRA membership to qualify for insurance, citing increased costs and falling membership. So there's lots of similar discussions about who are they and what value do they provide to me as a grass roots shooter. A general feeling is that if their business strategy is to try to milk more money by some kind of forced membership, they're already doomed.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Just had an email from the target club secretary asking who wants to rejoin the target club this year, and to reply ASAP. He was very apologetic but couldn't say when or if shooting would restart.

I don't know what to do :(
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
I'm presuming it's ASAP as your membership would have expired yesterday if this was your primary club...

I rejoined my club, even though I haven't been down there to shoot since March, and don't plan on doing so until such a time when I either need to practice distances greater than in my backyard for a competition, or this entire covid situation is more under control than it is... so quite possibly until next March or even later.

Just because I'm not going down, and archery isn't really happening at it's regular levels, doesn't mean that my club (and indeed by extension AGB and to a lesser degree regions/counties) doesn't have costs that require funding that in part comes from my membership. If we all just decided to withhold our fees until archery is back to how it was, it will never get to that point as it would collapse. Of course, there are those that might not be in the situation where they can afford to pay membership whilst not getting to shoot, which is understandable.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
I'm presuming it's ASAP as your membership would have expired yesterday if this was your primary club...

I rejoined my club, even though I haven't been down there to shoot since March, and don't plan on doing so until such a time when I either need to practice distances greater than in my backyard for a competition, or this entire covid situation is more under control than it is... so quite possibly until next March or even later.

Just because I'm not going down, and archery isn't really happening at it's regular levels, doesn't mean that my club (and indeed by extension AGB and to a lesser degree regions/counties) doesn't have costs that require funding that in part comes from my membership. If we all just decided to withhold our fees until archery is back to how it was, it will never get to that point as it would collapse. Of course, there are those that might not be in the situation where they can afford to pay membership whilst not getting to shoot, which is understandable.
Yes, I do realise this; it's just hard when the last six months have been a donation and at least the next six months probably will be too.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Can you associate with a second club in your area? We have taken on, as full and associate members, about twenty archers as their club is closed for the duration. We have limited shooting ourselves but it's really good to be shooting, now and again, with archers you may only see at tournaments otherwise.
 
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