Cartel Jig Not Evenly Spaced

Yonniol

New member
I am trying to get the cartel fletching jig to be spaced out evenly between fletchings. The first and second fletching is spaced really far apart whereas the second and third is really small. Help please.

Edit: I've set the jig up to three turns only. I've already taken out the screw for the four turns setting so it's disabled. The problem occurs in the three turns setting.
 

Berny

Member
Ignore the instructions on the pic below they are wrong!
Screw A in for 3-vane & B out.
Screw B in for 4-vane & A out.
There are 2 sets of notches for the ball-bearings (spring loaded, under the grub screws) - you only want to engage one set.
N.B. Screw in does not mean all the way, it means as far as is needed to engage the balls in the notches.

 

Yonniol

New member
Ignore the instructions on the pic below they are wrong!
Screw A in for 3-vane & B out.
Screw B in for 4-vane & A out.
There are 2 sets of notches for the ball-bearings (spring loaded, under the grub screws) - you only want to engage one set.
N.B. Screw in does not mean all the way, it means as far as is needed to engage the balls in the notches.

Thanks for the reply. I should have said in my first post, I've got the screw out and set it to three turns only.

The problem is, the space between vane A and B and vane B and C are not even. Could you think of a possible solution?

Thanks again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Stash

New member
Could you think of a possible solution?
Regrettably, this is another case of "you get what you pay for".

You could take it back and exchange it for a new one that's not defective.

Failing that, you could disassemble it, use something like epoxy glue to fill in the indentation in the receiver piece that's incorrectly spaced, and carve out a new one in the right place.
 

Yonniol

New member
Regrettably, this is another case of "you get what you pay for".

You could take it back and exchange it for a new one that's not defective.

Failing that, you could disassemble it, use something like epoxy glue to fill in the indentation in the receiver piece that's incorrectly spaced, and carve out a new one in the right place.
Thank you for replying. Is there really no way to fix it?

The odd thing is that I got a few evenly spaced ones after tweaking abit on my last set of arrows. On this set, after one month of storage, the fletchings aren't evenly spaced. I thought that something might have moved but can't figure out what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

lbp121

Member
Physically if the nock rotation detent has drillings which are not at 120, the item is defective. I use two of these and they are fine, Dismantle and measure the space between the detent drillings and if not equal, reject the goods.

If you have had some which seem to work check the screw which is almost hidden under the bearing. This adjusts the nock rotation, maybe between recurve and compound or if you like your vanes offset.

In my experience these are a good jig but I spend an hour or more setting them up. First I adjust nock rotation to visually appear at 90 degrees to the vane clamp. Next I get my thinnest shafts and longest vanes and move the clamp in and out by loosening the clamp screws till the vane sticks exactly central and at 90 degrees to the nock. This fixes the vane at the highest or most central part of the shaft. Finally I set the front and back of the clamp off axis to give me 1 degree offset. I then mark the jig.

I once bought a set of clamps from a well known shop attached to a board. Every jig was set up differently and so it was impossible to have bought a set of matching arrows from this shop. I have now made hundreds of arrows using these jigs.

Another way of setting any jig is to take a 'perfect' arrow. Loosen all the screws and fix the arrow in the jig then nip the screws up. This will reproduce your original arrow. First check the hole spacing though.
 

Stash

New member
Thank you for replying. Is there really no way to fix it?

The odd thing is that I got a few evenly spaced ones after tweaking abit on my last set of arrows. On this set, after one month of storage, the fletchings aren't evenly spaced. I thought that something might have moved but can't figure out what.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Are you using Beiter nocks? If you are, note that these are not symmetrical, and you need to use a different nock in the receiver.

If you are using conventional symmetrical nocks, perhaps you are simply not pushing the nock right down onto the receiver? Make sure the nock is firmly seated in the middle of the receiver.

Put the shaft in, give the knob a few turns while observing the shaft. If it appears to wobble, you don't have the nock properly in the receiver. If it doesn't wobble, then as mentioned, the detents are not evenly spaced at 120 degrees, and you have to either replace or re-machine the part.
 

Yonniol

New member
Physically if the nock rotation detent has drillings which are not at 120, the item is defective. I use two of these and they are fine, Dismantle and measure the space between the detent drillings and if not equal, reject the goods.

If you have had some which seem to work check the screw which is almost hidden under the bearing. This adjusts the nock rotation, maybe between recurve and compound or if you like your vanes offset.

In my experience these are a good jig but I spend an hour or more setting them up. First I adjust nock rotation to visually appear at 90 degrees to the vane clamp. Next I get my thinnest shafts and longest vanes and move the clamp in and out by loosening the clamp screws till the vane sticks exactly central and at 90 degrees to the nock. This fixes the vane at the highest or most central part of the shaft. Finally I set the front and back of the clamp off axis to give me 1 degree offset. I then mark the jig.

I once bought a set of clamps from a well known shop attached to a board. Every jig was set up differently and so it was impossible to have bought a set of matching arrows from this shop. I have now made hundreds of arrows using these jigs.

Another way of setting any jig is to take a 'perfect' arrow. Loosen all the screws and fix the arrow in the jig then nip the screws up. This will reproduce your original arrow. First check the hole spacing though.
Many thanks for the detailed reply.



I've tried opening the jig up. Unfortunately the screw on the right wouldn't catch the Allen key. I got the left one out but the right one wouldn't catch. Any suggestions?

I have tried adjusting:
(1) the magnetic bit where the clamp clips onto,

(2) the two screws here (btw I just realized the four turns setting doest work at all despite removing the top one completely and adjusting the bottom one

(3) the screw here


Tweaking all of these, I still got the same results with different spacing. Have I missed something that I haven't tweaked?

Thanks again.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Yonniol

New member
Are you using Beiter nocks? If you are, note that these are not symmetrical, and you need to use a different nock in the receiver.

If you are using conventional symmetrical nocks, perhaps you are simply not pushing the nock right down onto the receiver? Make sure the nock is firmly seated in the middle of the receiver.

Put the shaft in, give the knob a few turns while observing the shaft. If it appears to wobble, you don't have the nock properly in the receiver. If it doesn't wobble, then as mentioned, the detents are not evenly spaced at 120 degrees, and you have to either replace or re-machine the part.
Thanks again for the reply

I am using a nock called "Macro nocks"

Looks like this


Seems normal. This problem occurs to another set of arrows with different nocks too.

The nocks are properly in the receiver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Berny

Member
In your pics it looks like your A grub (3-vane) is way to far in & your B (4-vane) about right
suggesting 1 or both may engage.
Sometimes the BBs are oxidised/rough.
Disassemble: unscrew both grubs, taking care not to lose grubs, springs or ball bearings.
Squirt all parts & orifices with WD40 & reassemble (or leave out the B bits if you only want to do 3-vane).
The A grub does not need to be all the way in! Rotate & check engagement.
See my 3 here L->R: A in B out; A in B not there; A in B out.
All work fine.


If this doesn't work, further disassembly of the nock locator/barrel assembly may reveal notches not cut right, implying manufacturing defect.
I've seen quite a few of these jigs (as well as having 4) & they all suffered the same prob. with the in-outness of the A & B & lubrication.
 

Yonniol

New member
In your pics it looks like your A grub (3-vane) is way to far in & your B (4-vane) about right
suggesting 1 or both may engage.
Sometimes the BBs are oxidised/rough.
Disassemble: unscrew both grubs, taking care not to lose grubs, springs or ball bearings.
Squirt all parts & orifices with WD40 & reassemble (or leave out the B bits if you only want to do 3-vane).
The A grub does not need to be all the way in! Rotate & check engagement.
See my 3 here L->R: A in B out; A in B not there; A in B out.
All work fine.


If this doesn't work, further disassembly of the nock locator/barrel assembly may reveal notches not cut right, implying manufacturing defect.
I've seen quite a few of these jigs (as well as having 4) & they all suffered the same prob. with the in-outness of the A & B & lubrication.
Thanks for the reply.

Grub A is not ordinarily that far in, it's usually like Grub B. I was just tweaking things around to see if it might change things. Grub B is ordinarily unscrewed entirely, I keep it in the box. I forgot to reset them before taking the photos. Good eyes you have there for spotting that.

I have to say that Grub B does not activate the four turns either that's why both of the screws were in, no matter what I try, the four turn setting won't turn on. Doesn't bother me for now though.

I've attempted to disassemble it but the Allen key in one of the screws would just swing around in the hole without actually turning the screw. It's the right key size, I used the ones provided as well as my own (one size bigger and smaller). I'm going to get some rubber bands or tape to see if it will get the Allen key to catch. Any tips?

Many thanks.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Yonniol

New member
Forgive me, I am not very good at expressing my quandary. For clarification,


I am talking about the spacing between these vanes, this looks equal but mine isint (photo from google)

(photo from google)
The problem that I face is that the distance between the green vane and white vane is significantly larger than the distance of W-W vane and the W-G vane. All three G-W, W-W, W-G spacing are all different.
So I have distance value of a,b, and c on a single arrow

Thank you for all your help folks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

chuffalump

Well-known member
I've attempted to disassemble it but the Allen key in one of the screws would just swing around in the hole without actually turning the screw. It's the right key size, I used the ones provided as well as my own (one size bigger and smaller). I'm going to get some rubber bands or tape to see if it will get the Allen key to catch. Any tips?
As I said, grip the top of the bolt with pliers. Failing that, find a torx bit (shaped like *) of the largest size possible to knock into the rounded off hole and carefully unscrew.
 

chuffalump

Well-known member
Forgive me, I am not very good at expressing my quandary. For clarification,

The problem that I face is that the distance between the green vane and white vane is significantly larger than the distance of W-W vane and the W-G vane. All three G-W, W-W, W-G spacing are all different.
So I have distance value of a,b, and c on a single arrow
You have described the fault perfectly clearly. That's why one of the suggestions is to check the spacing of the ball bearing indents.

Would you say that the two white vanes were at 90 degrees to each other? If so it would indicate that your jig, or your setting of that jig, is mixing the three and four fletch settings together. In other words, it's trying to do both at once. Try to get that four fletch ball bearing completely out and see how it behaves then.
 

lbp121

Member
To further my earlier essay and reduce your troubles. Just back off the ball detent screws and the nock aligner and you should be able to remove the rotating barrel and measure the distances between all the three drillings on one side and 4 drillings on the row next to it.

If the drillings aren't correct, throw it away or reject the goods if you bought it new, even if it was a while ago.

If a manufacturing error is there no amount of 'tweaking' will correct it.

If the 4 vane setting doesn't work it can only mean the ball is stuck or the ball is missing. Backing off both of the screws should have the barrel turning freely. Nipping down one gives 90 degrees or nipping the other 60 degrees. If you are reluctant to fully dismantle, then first ensure you are getting only 3 click turns, then insert a bare shaft and magnetic clamp and draw a line with a marker pen on the shaft. rotate to next click and draw another line, and once more. Check your lines are equally spaced.

- - - Updated - - -
 

hot-shooter84

New member
If your planning on sticking with archery for the long term, chuck the cartel an get a Bitzenburger for home use. it's ugly as sin and a big old lump of aluminium, but it is accurate, well made and the clamps hold very well. plus it has the option of buying left and right helical clamps for feathers. For your kit box for taking to competition or practice get a silver streak, it's small, requires little to no fettling and does the job very well when your in a rush.
 

Berny

Member
This says it all - now go dismantle & check you've got all the bits, esp. the springs & BBs under the grub screws!
& post a picture to prove you've done it!
use WD40 to ease & lube, put back together.
To further my earlier essay and reduce your troubles. Just back off the ball detent screws and the nock aligner and you should be able to remove the rotating barrel and measure the distances between all the three drillings on one side and 4 drillings on the row next to it.

If the drillings aren't correct, throw it away or reject the goods if you bought it new, even if it was a while ago.

If a manufacturing error is there no amount of 'tweaking' will correct it.

If the 4 vane setting doesn't work it can only mean the ball is stuck or the ball is missing. Backing off both of the screws should have the barrel turning freely. Nipping down one gives 90 degrees or nipping the other 60 degrees. If you are reluctant to fully dismantle, then first ensure you are getting only 3 click turns, then insert a bare shaft and magnetic clamp and draw a line with a marker pen on the shaft. rotate to next click and draw another line, and once more. Check your lines are equally spaced.

- - - Updated - - -
 
Top