clout arrows

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DavidH

New member
Forgive me if this is covered elsewhere, but I cant find much information on clout arrows. My old bow was marked as 50# but I don't think it ever was that poundage,it now weighs in at 38#. I could never get to the men's clout distance and have always shot the ladies distance at our clubs clouts.

My new bow is 50# and it definitely has a lot more power, so hopefully I'll become a man at last;)

What do members recommend? I'm intending to go for 5/16 40/45 spine tapered to 1/4 inch points, those lovely Victorian Richard Head slender lethal ones, with tiny fletchings. I've seen some Sitka Spruce on Ebay which is meant to be a lighter wood. Could it be too light for my bow?

Any suggestions would be welcome and could be useful for other members too. The clout is on New Years day so I've time to get them made.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Out of interest where is the clout? I've not done one before.
I've not used silca but since your tapering your arrows I wouldn't make the wood any lighter as it could become effectivly too light for the bow so the momentum doesn't all transfer to the arrow.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
I think the only real way is trial and error, I'd suggest using standard shaft and smallish flights initially (2.5" parabolics are prob a good start) whilst reducing the point weight until you fid you are getting no increase in range, say start with 125gn, 100 gn, 70gn, then 50gn.
So if going from 70 to 50 doesn't help, go back to 70.
No point going too light for the reasons already stated
Once you have the optimum point weight, then look at making arrows with that same weight point but improved aerodynamics if you still need more range.
I can't profess to having done this whole exercise myself , but I know that I've shot some bows where going from 100gn to 70 gn didn't actually increase the distance.
There are some nice slim bamboo shafts available, which give the necessary stiffness with a small diameter.
A set of flight arrows is on my bucket list...
Del
 

DavidH

New member
Thanks Raven and Del for your input. Got an email back from my bowyer who reckons by bow is well suited to a light arrow so I've ordered the Spruce, its available at a very good price on ebay right now. There's very few fletchings available anywhere specifically for clout, unless someone knows better. I certainly don't relish the idea of cutting down a larger fletching. Any ideas on that? I do have some 2 1/2 inch parabolics, possibly they will do the job, but I've seen some posts on another site where the fletchings were really tiny and cut by laser!
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I sent some time looking for low profile feathers and its only high force that seem to have them yet they won't sell them individually anymore. You can get a low profile fletching cutter though and cut your own, whether you want to cut down a larger fletching or buy a full feather and cut them down its up to you.
I have heard of a wire cutter where you shape the wire, and then pass a current through it to cut the fletching, but I've yet to see one.
 

bobnewboy

Member
That's a feather burner that is :)

As for the arrows, I'd suggest asking your bowyer how low you can go with grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight (GPP) of the bow. Go too low and the bow wont last too long. Then, so long as you stay above the GPP lower limit, ensure that you stay reasonably close to the correct spine with the arrow shaft, to avoid breaking the arrow on release (also not good for your bow!). After that its a trial and error exercise to try small/low fletchings, lighter piles, barrelled shafts etc etc until you find what best suits your bow and shooting style (e.g release etc). The fun is in the trying.....
 

tinkerer

New member
I got the impression that sitka spruce was a bit more delicate than cedar, so maybe not a good idea to reduce the tip diameter. Easy to check the effect of reducing fletching size by getting the scissors out and comparing before and after.
What is the string material? Fastflite type strings will add noticeably to the bow's range and is probably safe although it may affect any warranty the bowyer offers.
 

DavidH

New member
Thanks for all replies. I've already convinced myself to keep the shaft as it is and not taper it, I read somewhere that spruce arrows can snap at the point, but then so does POC. I'm making up one arrow with trimmed feathers (at least I will be when the shafts arrive). I'm not sure what the string is, it was made by the bowyer and I suspect it is fastflite, must find that out. These arrows will only be used for clout so there should be less impact than on a target. My only objective here is to get an arrow that goes the full 180 yards but with a 50# bow that shouldn't be too difficult. I'll keep you informed of progress.
 

DavidH

New member
Just got the spruce shafts and they are a delight to look at, rich colour, too good to shoot! I lost this thread for a while so I posted elsewhere, but the vendor has marked them to show the stiffest point and suggests I put the cock feather opposite this. Normal orientation of nock needn't apply because of the denseness of spruce apparently. He suggests I do a bare shaft test, trying both normal orientation and his suggestion. As he sent a bakers dozen I've nothing to lose. Another ebay success.
 

DavidH

New member
Raising the bow at 45 degrees shortens my draw length by an inch or two, so I'm intending to make my clout arrows a bit shorter than my target arrows. Is this the norm? Decided on some brass 63 grain points. Would have been 100 grain but they'd sold out;) Tried out a bare shaft spruce by accident on Sunday (pulled the wrong arrow out of the quiver) and it flew way over the top of the target, so I'm getting there. Three weeks to go before the clout, so I'll soon find out if I finally reach the distance.
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
Raising the bow at 45 degrees shortens my draw length by an inch or two, so I'm intending to make my clout arrows a bit shorter than my target arrows. Is this the norm? Decided on some brass 63 grain points. Would have been 100 grain but they'd sold out;) Tried out a bare shaft spruce by accident on Sunday (pulled the wrong arrow out of the quiver) and it flew way over the top of the target, so I'm getting there. Three weeks to go before the clout, so I'll soon find out if I finally reach the distance.
Your draw length shouldn't change as you aim higher. My guess is that you're aiming up with your arm. What you should be doing is pivoting from the waist. If you aim using this method you will find that your draw length will not reduce and you will get more distance from your arrows. If you look at my avatar you're see what I'm talking about. If you'd like a better picture let me know and I'll try to post one for you.
 

Geoff76

New member
I've seen some posts on another site where the fletchings were really tiny and cut by laser!
That'll be me then ;)

I've done a fair bit of experimenting with clout arrows over the last few years, and the ones you saw where I laser-cut the feathers (perk of the job!) are the ones I have stuck with. I mainly shoot a 60lb bamboo/coconut bow I made myself a couple of years ago, and I have found that the secret for me is a heavy arrow with small feathers. The theory is you need the weight to get a decent energy to transfer into the arrow from the bow - I've tried very light arrows and they skitter about and the bow doesn't feel nice at all - not far from a dry-fire I guess. The weight of the arrow also keeps a good momentum up to drive the arrow over the long distance - it doesn't 'stall' as lighter arrows seem to. Its also a lot more stable in winds.

The little feathers make an incredible difference! My rubber band was about 2-3" higher when I went from 2 1/4" shield to the little ones, and that was with a heavier point (125grn). You also get a lot less effect from side winds as there is much less surface area of feather to catch the wind. The only drawback is you don't get so much dampening to stabalise the arrow when it leaves the bow, but if you get the spine right they don't need to do much anyway, and unlike target shooting, the arrow has 180 yds to straighten up so a bit of wiggle isn't a major issue.

They work nicely for me anyway... I broke the county record twice this year (admittedly the second time increasing my score by 1 point, but it still counts!)

finished2.jpg
 

DavidH

New member
Your draw length shouldn't change as you aim higher. My guess is that you're aiming up with your arm. What you should be doing is pivoting from the waist. If you aim using this method you will find that your draw length will not reduce and you will get more distance from your arrows. If you look at my avatar you're see what I'm talking about. If you'd like a better picture let me know and I'll try to post one for you.
Thanks for that, yes I understand exactly, I just don't shoot enough long distance.
 

DavidH

New member
Geoff 76, yes it was indeed you, and it was great information. I can understand what you are saying about arrows that are too light, although I've seen arrows from other clout archers that looked like long matchsticks:) I guess the good thing is that it doesn't cost too much to experiment.

I want Father Xmas to send me a laser cutter;)
 

Geoff76

New member
The other way of getting little feathers is simply cut off a bit from the front or back of a longer feather ;)

If you fancy a bit of clout next year, I have just put up the entry form for our club's Open Clout next May Burton Bridge Archers - Events - don't know where in Warwickshire you are, but might not be too far :)
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I'm thinking of doing a clout next year, might not reach the target but I'll give it a go. So watch out, as I might be there.
 

AntiqueArcher

New member
I also used to use Hi-Force fletchings and for a while I had to go without once they demanded you buy a finished set. Not wanting their quality of arrow... I found a way to make my own without a cutter or wire.

I made a pair of brass plates, one the size/shape I want my fletching to end up and the other a little smaller. The smaller is braized to a backing plate with a small gap under which allows for the quill to be slipped under this plate. Then the other plate is placed in front of the fletching and held in place by a pair of thin nosed "mole grips". Then I take a blowtorch and scorch the edge. This burns away the excess fletching. I do start by trimming the quill length down (if necessary) before burning. Otherwise it seems to leave a bit of a blob. Hope this is easy to follow.

If anyone wants some pictures I could send them to an email address. If I were really clever I should try and set up a video on You Tube but don't hold your breath.

I took some of my old target arrows with broken points and made a set of 15 arrows for a friend to use at clout. He could only reach 180yds and not alot more no matter how he tried, but wanted to do the 185m (204yds). The shafts were originally exactly 50# spine 5/16ths sitka spruce direct from Hildebrand in the USA, weighing 354gns @ full length. I can't remember exactly what they weighed in the end but had 100gn 9/32nd piles (as Tinkerer says, Sitka is brittle so don't go too thin at the front) and rear tapered to 9/32nds at the rear too. The rear taper seemed to make the most difference. Then I burned down 2 1/2" standard fletchings to a low profile. It gained him about 20yds or so. I'm sure I could have rear tapered a little more at the very end and lost another 3-4 grains and reduced the diameter to 1/4inch. Again, I agree with previous posts that reducing the point weight by much more (maybe 70gn minimum) would not do much- arrows get buffeted around and (I'm not sure I'd call it stalling but) they lose momentum as the wind slows them. I found the front taper lost about 4 grains the way I did them, and the rear lost about 7 more.

Tinkerer is an experienced flight archer and therefore I would listen to his advice (not foresaking others).

AA
 

DavidH

New member
Finally, here's the prototype of my clout arrows, I've trimmed down some fletchings, wood is stika spruce, points are 63 grain
IMG_8718.JPG
 
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