Could/should counties/regions/AGB help?

Furface

Moderator
Supporter
A purely hypothetical, but potential situation.
Your club is using multi-sports grounds throughout the year. The other sports using it are all amateur, and you all have an equal (one vote) share in the overall association. Now, one of the other sports informs you that their local organisation is insisting that, where there is a clash between their fixtures and the usage of any other sport, their fixtures must take priority, even at short notice (for, say, a rearranged fixture). Simple? Well read on.....
Your overall association, like most these days, is working on a knife edge. If any of the sports were forced to leave, the resultant drop in membership and associated income would be likely to force it to close. Alternative venues for your club have been explored in the past, but nothing suitable was found, ironically all involving being subsidiary to the demands of other sports.
Obviously, there is a potential conflict brewing. In such a conflict, would you expect your county, region, or governing body, if you approached them for support, to:
  • Say "You're on your own, mate"
  • Say "You have our full support, but there's nothing we can do"
  • Actively support you in discussions with the other sport's organisation (and what could that active support involve)
  • Something else - what?
Are there other bodies - such as County Sports Partnerships that you could involve?
As I say this is hypothetical at the moment, but there could be trouble brewing here between two other sports - not us for once - and we might need a battle plan!
 

mk1

It's an X
Supporter
First recourse is to the constitution of the multi-sports association. If the one other sport has no more sway than any other then the pressure their "local organisation" cis putting on them is their problem. There are a few clubs up here where when they have eg. a full Sunday use of a hall to host a competition then there is usually a reciprocal agreement in that a displaced sport may get to displace them on an agreed date to host an event. All it needs is a bit of give and take but no taking the mickey. To be honest I'm not sure what a "higher authority" could provide - maybe some legal advice if you have a decent County Sport Partnership. Worth asking if anyone on the AGB Development team can offer any advice.
 

Bertybobby

New member
Does the other sport often get rearranged fixtures? Is this a "real" problem where often it may be called on, or just an understanding the other sports may back down on a very occasional basis?

Given you could all be without a facility if one sport leaves, an accommodation would be best.

I agree with MK1 though, it is principally their problem. Don't let them put the monkey on your back.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
Is there any chance that AGB can insist this on our behalf...??

Now, one of the other sports informs you that their local organisation is insisting that, where there is a clash between their fixtures and the usage of any other sport, their fixtures must take priority, even at short notice (for, say, a rearranged fixture).
 

grimsby archer

New member
FF: firstly is your question "what would you expect your county/region/agb to do" or "what would you hope your county/region/agb would do"?

Secondly, isnt it a seesaw?
Ok, if this other group can't have their DEMANDS they'll leave which causes you all a problem.
On the other foot, if your archers regularly turning up to be told "sorry mate, the ****** team have taken over the facilities again" then pretty soon, you're not going to have any members, and you become the sports group that leaves, creating the same problem for the other sports groups.

If you hope your archery bodies would wade in to back you up, doesnt that just become "my dads bigger than yours" as the other sports group does exactly the same thing?

Our County Sports Partnership have been helpful in the past. I realise that CSPs, like any other organisation, vary from area to area, but they usually are based in local councils and therefore have more resources at their disposal to solve problems, so thats where I'd be going.
 

Tuck

New member
You're more likely to be able to get useful help from local sport funders as they will have a leverage on the club, if their actions deleteriously affect sport provision. sport for All, etc



Eat, Drink, Shoot, Enjoy.
 

Furface

Moderator
Supporter
Thanks for swift opinions. All will go into the melting pot. Please do keep chipping in, and I shall keep you updated.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
All this should be agreed and understood in the hire agreement (which seems to be common place and a legal document these days) when signing up to use a field or hall if that is the case then there is not much anyone can do unless it breaks the agreement.
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
In practical terms, if in the shared space, the other sport brings in more money, you're probably stuffed...

The question isn't really one about governing bodies (though of theirs is insisting on something unreasonable, it might be worth getting someone to speak to their GB).
It's about how the facility provider reacts to the, possibly unreasonable, position. And that may be governed by the facility's rules, if they are codified, or subject to higher powers or a constitution...

It's all very well to talk about legal positions and agreements, but what's the outcome if you think the facility is in breach of contract? You leave and get a refund of hire? I can't see getting anything more than that. Could be a negotiating point, though. Especially if it bears the risk of negative publicity for them.
 

chuffalump

Well-known member
In practical terms, if in the shared space, the other sport brings in more money, you're probably stuffed...
Too true. We shoot at a rugby club. The local football club is going to start using the same grounds. Their revenue 'pull in' means they are going to demand priority over everyone else for pitch use, even the rugby team. They are also (good authority) going to build a stand over one of our shooting 'lanes'. Doesn't mean the end for us. We can budge over and shoot but there will be other problems. What if I want to shoot when there is a game on? Will they block entry because I might see some football through the gaps or because I'm carrying a lethal weapon?

I see a club meeting on the horizon.
 

little-else

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
Now, someone owns the ground and thus must have put in place a system that allows the various clubs to use it and manage the facilities bu consent in the manner mentioned, ie: a simple voting structure. I would presume that the local organisation attempting to throw more weight than its entitlement is an association to a national governing body so this does leave at least 2 avenues to explore to resolve the problem without actually talking to the people who are claiming that they are obliged to bully the other sports clubs.
A further one would be any funding body such as the local council or Sport England. they will have placed obligations and stipulations on the funding and I'm sure that doesnt include the behaviour threatened. If this sporting club wont submit to democracy (try sorting it out at a suitable management committee) then you tell them that their sports governemnt have created a problem that is for them to solve and no-one else but you would all be willing to listen to any proposals etc etc. and in the meanwhile look at an approach to the other interested parties (council, landlord) to make "recommendations" to both the club and local association that co-operation is the way forward, need to understand others etc and if they still wont budge then a meeting with the main body and a warning that it is suicidal to continue with the insistence placed upon the club about priorities. The national associations can help out here in several ways from loans to form filling for finding extra funding etc but will they go toe to toe with the FA or RFU over use of a pitch? I doubt it and by then everyone will have lost out.
What tends to happen is one group will approach another and say "would you like more time using the facilities? neddless to say the answer will be yes and then the same question is asked of another group until everyone except 1 sport has agreed they could use more time and the sport not asked is told that they are superfluous. Has this where I worked, people in general asked if they wanted a particular facility and the consensus was yes. What they werent told is they were going to lose an established facility and when the plans were fully revealed to complaint about the loss they were told that they had voted to have XXX and the only way this could be accommodated was to lose YYY and that was the decision that made the most people happy. Of course no hint that +x = -Y
 
T

the-poet

Guest
I can't see how county, region or AGB could get involved even if they wanted to.
Unless they were involved in organising the facility in the first place they have no interest in it and are unlikley to be recognised by the other parties anyway.
 

Vagabond

New member
Just thinking out loud...

If there's a dispute between the other 2 sporting clubs, offer to help settle the dispute by organising a have-a-go.
The other 2 clubs shoot: winner gets to decide. Obviously, you'd have to charge the going rate...

But seriously, it might bring them all together in a way that other sports like (e.g.) football & rugby can't.
Otherwise the factional "us versus them" just gets worse. Just a thought.

Who owns the ground? Local authority? Would it help to get them on-side?
E.g. invite a senior official to become Lord/Lady paramount at a shoot.
They tend to turn up if you tell them there's a reporter from a local paper turning up.
Also 'adopt' a local newspaper: invite a reporter & photographer to have-a-go

V
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Our club went through a similar thing which lead us to move, which in the end resulted in a much better deal for us as we found a sports club that was willing to lend us some money and our members chipped in to build a range of our own, and the field is on a sharing basis with the deal of, if one group would like the field on another's day then they will give us written notice in advance and give us one of their days in return.
Still new but so far is working.
Speak to the other sections of the club, explain the situation. As others have said if it happens alot your members will drop and you'll either have to disband or move.
 

Trunkles

The American
American Shoot
FF I had an email from a Rugby club local to you looking for additional sports if you wanted to investigate that option.
 
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