Crowded Shooting Line, any solutions?

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
How's that for a great solution to a real problem; and no extra work involved!!
Great stuff!
Now all you need is a random order generator so the same people don't end up in the same places each time causing someone to moan about always getting xxxxxxxxx to look at.
Only joking!
I assume the whole field shoots to one whistle... do the longer distances still take longer to shoot and collect?
 


Corax67

Active member
Hi Geoff - I?ve shot at a few ?them and us? clubs as a guest and it isn?t a comfortable evening?s shooting, they tend to go hand in hand with having a small group of people who every week do the setup & take down & coaching and sacrifice their own shooting for the good of the club but don?t feel sufficiently aggrieved to voice their feelings (if they have them) of being used.

Giving something back to the club isn?t an incentive to archers, more often it can be seen as a chore to some.

Fun shoots are a great mingler but not really an event where instruction is likely to be shared/imparted.

Another aspect is personalities - not every club member will be a people person or a good communicator or feel comfortable shooting with archers who are at a dissimilar level (either higher or lower). Improvers feel intimidated whilst experienced archers become frustrated. Neither situation will result in positive outcomes.

As for random target allocation we had one boss always with the same 4 archers on it, they had shot together over 15 years and an archery session was as much a social meet up for them as it was a shooting event. No one would consider splitting them up and rightly so.





Karl
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Karl, I guess I didn't communicate my incentive idea very well. I will try again.
Those chasing better scores will want to get on with their shooting, their way, and that is fine. Your four mates who shoot together have every right to continue that, too.
The incentive, I was talking about was a new incentive, one that gives the better archers a chance to take part in passing on useful ideas to newer archers. They may not see it like that when it is first put to them, but possibly the idea might sprout into something useful in the near future. When one archer helps others, it can have a knock on effect as others might want to demonstrate that they, too have things worth listening to.
Sometimes it is a matter of "one small step".
I suppose the bottom line is, what is the club prepared to tolerate before doing something to make things better?
The random target allocation wasn't meant to split up each target, just move which group was next to which other group.
 


ben tarrow

Active member
As for random target allocation we had one boss always with the same 4 archers on it, they had shot together over 15 years and an archery session was as much a social meet up for them as it was a shooting event. No one would consider splitting them up and rightly so.





Karl
Karl, If I understand KidCurry's suggestion, the 4 archers wouldnt have to be split up, but they might find themselves shooting next to different people (people shooting on a different boss) from week to week. Thats a great way for those 4 to make new friends and share the knowledge that they have undoubtedly built up in their collective 60 years of archery.
I love this idea.
 


Corax67

Active member
Hi both - I see where mixing up the target distances across the shooting line would place experienced amongst inexperienced, hopefully that will spark a desire to help each other out. It would play hell with my OCD :)

Hopefully it will work for you Ben.



Karl
 


TimGriff6

Member
It would play hell with my OCD :)


Karl
This would really get you going then. :poulies: We often start off with one boss to the left of the field and one to the right so that we can shoot independently of each other (there is a big enough gap between them for it to be safe and we only do it if both boss occupants agree) and then fill in at random points and distances as more people arrive!
 


Corax67

Active member
This would really get you going then. :poulies: We often start off with one boss to the left of the field and one to the right so that we can shoot independently of each other (there is a big enough gap between them for it to be safe and we only do it if both boss occupants agree) and then fill in at random points and distances as more people arrive!

Nooooooooooo..............
 


LAC Mark

Member
I hate to be a killjoy, but don?t AGB rules state that targets must be arranged going left to right shortest to longest distance.
I?m sure it?s to do with the insurance.

We would like to arrange ours the other way (shortest to the right) as there?s a football / cricket field to the left of our range and it would give us better view of people walking onto the range to collect stray balls.
 


TimGriff6

Member
Oh yes, as soon as there are more than 3 bosses, we have to work together. To put it in perspective, we have access all day every day to the field and 3 set target days/times. When there is not a target day, some groups get together for a couple of hours of a morning, afternoon or evening but outside of those times there can often be one, two or three people shooting. We have some very good archers and it's nice for them to know that they can get some serious practice done without having to wait for the social archers to have a chat, do some scoring, look for arrows etc.
On that subject one of the other benefits we have of using random boss distances along the line on a target day is that anyone shooting longer distances can help to look for arrows on the other bosses without going much out of their way. This means that arrows are usually found quicker but if not, because the field is always open and exclusively ours, it isn't too much problem to leave looking for them until after everyone has finished.
 


TimGriff6

Member
I hate to be a killjoy, but don’t AGB rules state that targets must be arranged going left to right shortest to longest distance.
I’m sure it’s to do with the insurance.

We would like to arrange ours the other way (shortest to the right) as there’s a football / cricket field to the left of our range and it would give us better view of people walking onto the range to collect stray balls.
That's a new rule to me so probably worth looking up. On competitions I have been to where different distances are shot it is usually the other way round, longer to the left and shorter to the right.
 


TimGriff6

Member
Appendices C & D cover range layout (target distances as required) and independent shooting (25m gap) but I can't find anything else.
 


TimGriff6

Member
We would like to arrange ours the other way (shortest to the right) as there?s a football / cricket field to the left of our range and it would give us better view of people walking onto the range to collect stray balls.
Thinking about that, the range approval/inspection system that was put in place recently may have something to do with that. I know that we had to make some changes that make no real sense in relation to our field and indoor hall just to get approval. If you only did a postal application and approval, it could be that someone put that in as part of the application and so you have to stick to it. Alternatively, it may have come back as a condition after the application was reviewed by AGB.
 


KidCurry

Well-known member
I hate to be a killjoy, but don’t AGB rules state that targets must be arranged going left to right shortest to longest distance.
I’m sure it’s to do with the insurance.
Nope... found nothing. Even the latest updates have nothing. Can you reference it please?
 


ben tarrow

Active member
Nope... found nothing. Even the latest updates have nothing. Can you reference it please?
I love the way people either make these things up as they go along, or someone misunderstands something and before you know it, its being quoted as absolute fact.
eg "a beginners course must be six two hour lessons", "beginners can only use lightweight club bows", "beginners can only use recurve bows", "if one person on the shooting line has a lapsed membership, no one is insured to shoot"
and the people repeating them always state "insurance" as being the reason.
 


LAC Mark

Member
The range approval/inspection system may well be where I got this from, it may have been communicated badly or just miss understood by me.
 


fbirder

Supporter
Supporter
Thinking about that, the range approval/inspection system that was put in place recently may have something to do with that.
Yup. That is the reason why we can only shoot 50m or less on the LHS of our field - and no compound shooters at all on that side.
 


AndyS

Supporter
Supporter
"if one person on the shooting line has a lapsed membership, no one is insured to shoot"
Actually that one seems to be true - we had many such myths floating around, such as "you're not insured to shoot on your own" (we have use of a private fenced field, etc), so when the range approval system was introduced I emailed AGB with a number of queries to try and sort fact from fiction and one of the replies from AGB said:
If a member was shooting outside of the Archery GB Rules of Shooting, this may invalidate the Club?s insurance cover. It is important that the Club Committee ensure that all their Club members are shooting within the Rules of Shooting requirements.
And lapsed membership would be outside the AGB rules of shooting so "may" invalidate the club's insurance - I was a bit surprised by "may" in an official response to an insurance / rules query though.

Incidentally, we have 6 lanes to the right that can be used for up to 60yds, and 3 lanes on the left for up to 100yds / compound and this layout was passed when we were visited by a range assessor.
 


ben tarrow

Active member
Actually that one seems to be true - we had many such myths floating around, such as "you're not insured to shoot on your own" (we have use of a private fenced field, etc), so when the range approval system was introduced I emailed AGB with a number of queries to try and sort fact from fiction and one of the replies from AGB said:


And lapsed membership would be outside the AGB rules of shooting so "may" invalidate the club's insurance - I was a bit surprised by "may" in an official response to an insurance / rules query though.

Incidentally, we have 6 lanes to the right that can be used for up to 60yds, and 3 lanes on the left for up to 100yds / compound and this layout was passed when we were visited by a range assessor.


The club's insurance cover is not the same as the clubs members individual insurance cover.

Think of it like a haulage company. If the haulage company knowingly allows one of its drivers to drive under circumstances that would disallow that drivers insurance (drunk, on drugs, health issues, defective vehicle etc) then that could invalidate the companies insurance if that driver had an accident. It would NOT however, invalidate the insurance of the other drivers.

Similarly, if the club (committee) allow someone to shoot without agb membership/insurance then the club committee could be held liable in the case of an accident and I can see how the insurance company might not want to extend cover to the club committee under those circumstances. Therefore its in the best interests of the club committee members to take all reasonable steps to ensure that all shooting members are covered. My insurance, as a shooting member cannot be affected by the actions of someone else unless I knowingly collude or conspire with that person in such a was as to make myself liable either explicitly or implicitly.

That said, this information is my opinion and carries no warranty or guarantee and is provided as is as a general guide for information only.
 


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