[Horsebow] GNAS (GB) proposed horse bow class

barney

New member
The Bow
1. The bow shall be bare, i.e no stabilisers, weights, sights, dampeners or other attachments to the limbs or handle shall be allowed.

2. The bow shall not have an arrow rest, shelf or pressure button. The handle must not protrude to the side to an extent that allows it to be used as an arrow shelf. The bow shall not have a cut away section. The arrow must rest on the bowhand during the draw.

3. The bow shall be recurved. For the purpose of this rule, 'recurved' means either:
a. the string must contact the limb at some point other than the area of the nock; or
b. the nock groove must be cut entirely into the back (i.e. the side that faces away from the archer) or a rigid siyah or tip.


Hi,

I agree with all of this. Might just need to be careful not to ban 'String Bridges'. As an 'attachment' they're common to many Asiatic 'Horsebows'.

PS. I've made a few composite bows from horn/sinew and they can be made a lot more durable in the wet than you might think.

regards,

Barney
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Good point about string bridges.

The verdict from my Turkish friend is that he'd never heard of string- or facewalking being used and thinks them highly unlikely. Turkish archery techniques are pretty well documented...
 


ChakaZulu

New member
I just saw that as well. I should perhaps point out, without wanting to be negative, that the place shown is not BHAA affiliated and as far as I know not a British Horse Society riding school, which our main centre is (as is the place in Sheffield). I've not met the people, they may be splendid (most horseback archers are...). I believe they also require you to be a good rider before starting, which we don't. There it is.

Good that the BBC are taking notice though: we've got Mike Bushell coming on Tuesday to do a piece. Broadcast details to follow...
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Saturday 16th October BBC breakfast should have horseback archery featuring yours truly teaching the basics of thumbdraw!

I'm going to get my defence in early by saying that I was basically given 45 seconds to teach archery and he kept getting ahead of himself, doing things before I taught him it. This is normally not a problem, I just tell the student to slow down. You'd be amazed how much you freeze up when somebody points a camera at you!
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Brilliant! I was just filling out my BHAA membership application when I read your post. I had better get it in quick before you are inundated with new members as a result of the publicity!!
 


ChakaZulu

New member
You're just in time for the AGM, which is 6/7th November in Sussex. We're hoping to put on some riding and/or shooting as well as the meeting (and social gathering, as well as possibly some workshops on anything people want to learn about.
If you're not going to make it, do let us know anything you want raised.

I shall look out for your form!
 


ThePinkOne

New member
Totally agree - although my post was a bit rambling, in essence, I think it would be a good idea to start off on an inclusive spec, rather than an exclusive one.

It would be contentious to say something like, must have a wooden core. How would you measure it, or even check it's there is the bow is painted etc?
Most modern recurve limbs have wooden cores anyhow...

I'd say leave materials open, if the class gets so huge that a noticeable gap between the carbons and the naturals, then deal with that then.

Si
I've been reading this thread with interest- having had a break of a year or three from archery (life stuff) the interest is back. However, it's not my compound I reached for, but my Grozer bow- a basic model Hungarian-style one I bought and shot (and loved) when Eagle Archery was still around, a few years ago now. So it's really fantastic to see the idea of a class for these bows.

I was looking at the materials bit, and thought I'd mention that my Grozer bow ("base" Hungarian bought a few years back) has solid glass limbs (with wooden siyahs). I discovered this as I'm, ahem, in the process of "reverse engineering" it to give it a bit of a makeover.

I don't know how Grozer bows are built these days, but I wonder how many of these bows are based on solid glass limbs? Certainly when I bought mine, there wasn't much choice, and being too proscriptive on limb materials (eg must have some wood in them) could excluded older "base" model bows? Also, on a practical level, as Si points out, how would anyone know what their bow-limbs were made of? This is especially so if it was an older bow and they hadn't stripped it down.

I agree with Si- please keep the bow materials bit inclusive.

P
 


leteus

New member
Asiatic recurves nee horse bows

Hello all

I have read with interest all that has been posted on here about trying to get Asiatic Recurves accepted by GNAS as a separate class, which as everyone says will be difficult..................however............................

Has anyone considered AR owners and prospective owners going it alone with their own with rules and society or club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............as some other archery branches have done

Or would that be viewed as not be playing cricket and playing by the establishment rules.

Just a thought.
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Has anyone considered AR owners and prospective owners going it alone with their own with rules and society or club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............as some other archery branches have done

Or would that be viewed as not be playing cricket and playing by the establishment rules.

Just a thought.
Hi Leteus
I am not sure that there are enough numbers at the moment to even consider that as a viable option. I have just started shooting in field competitions this year, and have so far only come across one other person shooting a horsebow. If that is anything to go by I would have been attending AR events on my own!

However there may be enough of us for a once a year national AR competition I suppose? That would be fun....
 


ChakaZulu

New member
There already is such an organisation, more or less. It's called the British Horseback Archery Association!
:beer:
 


Thorvald

Active member
Hi.

I read most of the first pages when I gave up, reading everything. It seems quite good what you are thinking. On some of the first pages someone was asking about references, what is "asian recurve" (I think maybe "horsebow" is a better name, because everyone knows what that is, even though it is not shot from a horse) - and what is not.

This page salukibow.com seems to have a lot of examples of what it can be: Link 1. But if you look at the next link, these bows does actually have an arrow shelf (but they can be made without on order). Link 2. I would think that shooting off shelf and shooting off hand is of not much difference in perfomance and accuracy. But of course one can say that a hand can move, an arrow shelf cannot. But that is the same as the hand/fingers on the string must be at the same place every time to give the same release - so must the bowhand if shot off the hand and that is a question about training.

But then here is a bow that would not go under your class, the Blackbrook Nisus - a beautiful recuvebow, with the look of a mongolian/turkish/asian/horsebow style bow. Link 3.

Just wanted to give you these comments.
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Hi.

I read most of the first pages when I gave up, reading everything. It seems quite good what you are thinking. On some of the first pages someone was asking about references, what is "asian recurve" (I think maybe "horsebow" is a better name, because everyone knows what that is, even though it is not shot from a horse) - and what is not.

This page salukibow.com seems to have a lot of examples of what it can be: Link 1. But if you look at the next link, these bows does actually have an arrow shelf (but they can be made without on order). Link 2. I would think that shooting off shelf and shooting off hand is of not much difference in perfomance and accuracy. But of course one can say that a hand can move, an arrow shelf cannot. But that is the same as the hand/fingers on the string must be at the same place every time to give the same release - so must the bowhand if shot off the hand and that is a question about training.

But then here is a bow that would not go under your class, the Blackbrook Nisus - a beautiful recuvebow, with the look of a mongolian/turkish/asian/horsebow style bow. Link 3.

Just wanted to give you these comments.
All of what you say is true, Thorvald, as far as excluding bows in concerned. I personally have always found it much easier to shoot off a shelf than off my knuckles. There is some truth in saying that it's like having to do the draw fingers the same, but with shooting off the knuckle you not only have to place them the same, you also have to angle your fingers the same and keep them there throughout.

There's also the point that most bows with shelves are centreshot (to some extent). That also makes them easier to shoot than traditional full-width shelfless bows.

Finally, of course, there's the fact that horsebows were not centreshot and did not have shelves (as far as I am aware, and I've read fairly extensively on the topic, albeit not exhaustively by any means). Using modern materials is one thing, moving away from the historical form is quite another.
 


Uller

The American
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
Ironman

Sorry about this, but I was wondering if any of you are considering shooting in this years AIUK Ironman competition? Up here in the West of Scotland we have a small group of not particulary good, but enthusiastic 'Horsebowers'. As part of the AIUK Ironman competition, we (Giffnock) have been tasked with defining just what constitutes a 'Horsebow' for the purposes of this national (!) tournament. I have proposed a hopefully concise definition for the comp, and was wondering if it would meet with approval with those who have dicussed a new classification in this thread.

so here goes...

' 'Horsebow' is defined as an Asiatic style bow, of composite construction, recurved or siyah'd, with no arrowshelf. Can be shot with fingers or thumbring.
Arrow shafts should be of wood or bamboo.
No sighting aids are permitted.'

Tried to keep it as short and all encompassing as possible.

any thoughts?





oh, and horses are optional :D
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Sorry about this, but I was wondering if any of you are considering shooting in this years AIUK Ironman competition? Up here in the West of Scotland we have a small group of not particulary good, but enthusiastic 'Horsebowers'. As part of the AIUK Ironman competition, we (Giffnock) have been tasked with defining just what constitutes a 'Horsebow' for the purposes of this national (!) tournament. I have proposed a hopefully concise definition for the comp, and was wondering if it would meet with approval with those who have dicussed a new classification in this thread.

so here goes...

' 'Horsebow' is defined as an Asiatic style bow, of composite construction, recurved or siyah'd, with no arrowshelf. Can be shot with fingers or thumbring.
Arrow shafts should be of wood or bamboo.
No sighting aids are permitted.'

Tried to keep it as short and all encompassing as possible.

any thoughts?





oh, and horses are optional :D
Well done Uller - I think that encapsulates it very well! I agree, for the purposes of a specific event like Ironman you can keep it short and simple. We want to encourage people to bring their horsebows out, and get the style 'out there'.
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Looks good, but what do you mean by composite construction? I assume you mean to exclude pure fibreglass but allow fibreglass and wood? It's a bit picky but would you allow all-wood bows?
 


Uller

The American
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
Most fibreglass AR bows are fitted with wooden Siyahs, so I'd maybe class that as a composite? All wood bows would be ok too I think. The only wooden bows that I can think of that aren't laminated (which I thought of as composite construction) would be an AFB, which normally has an arrowshelf, or ELB, which isn't recurved... I might be showing a lack of knowledge here... :)
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Hallo fellow horsebowers and prospective horsebowers
Since this thread has been a bit quiet of late I just wanted to remind people that a while back we decided to try and gather as many scores for rounds shot by horsebows as possible as this would add fuel to our case for eventually getting them recognised as a separate class. At the moment horsebows are usually put in with barebow which is shot off an arrow rest and can have stabilisers etc - hardly like for like as we are shooting off our hand.

I would encourage people to enter their scores in the thread designed for that purpose which was started by Si. That thread is for scores and round info only - no comments please.

Come on - don't be shy. Lets get some data.
 


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