[Horsebow] GNAS (GB) proposed horse bow class

Si2

New member
Hiya - I'm going to be doing more shooting of the scythian through the winter. I've just got my Bowman classification for Longbow, so I've achieved my target for my first year in archery. So now it's back to horse bows again.
I've written to GNAs, but only very recently, so I'll keep you informed on the response.

I know these bows are popular - someone else at our club now shoots an SKB regularly. Also I've seen loads selling at Quicks. They had a range length of Hungarian horse bows at the end of July (the importer had them laid on the floor from one end to the other) and they have very few left now. So someone is buying them...

If we had a GNAS class then they might be seen in public a bit more.

How about we try to organise some events next year - create our own subdivision of barebow for specific events?
I am sure we could find a few clubs to host a days shooting with a theme - nothing to stop any 'normal' shooting going on at the same time.

Perhaps create a small series with a few dates - say three, throughout the year and then declare a 2012 champ.
Maybe North, South and Midlands based - or possibly postal??
The thing with real events is getting the bows visible isn't it - a postal may miss the point.

I can have a talk with my club tonight... We're about as South as you can get!


I feel 2012 will be the year of the horse bow!


Si2
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
How about we try to organise some events next year - create our own subdivision of barebow for specific events?
I am sure we could find a few clubs to host a days shooting with a theme - nothing to stop any 'normal' shooting going on at the same time.

Perhaps create a small series with a few dates - say three, throughout the year and then declare a 2012 champ.
Maybe North, South and Midlands based - or possibly postal??
Si2
Congrats on your Bowman classification!

I think that some horsebow inclusive events would be great. I would definitely be up for that! I must admit that is why I was so keen on entering the last AIUK Frostbite Challenge because it actually had a horsebow class in it, and we did have quite a good turnout. I would definitely do that again as it was a really fun day, but as you suggest we could organise two or three horsebow 'days' alongside normal club shooting. It would be fun to meet up and compare notes :)

I am sure that The Horde would be up for it, and may be we could have another one in the far South. I wonder if there are any horsebow people in the Midlands that would be up for organising an event???
 


ChakaZulu

New member
I'm not convinced that the ridge does give an advantage, especially if you use the thumbring in the way that is usual in Korea, Turkey and just about everywhere else I've heard from, i.e. putting the string at the point where the thumb meets the ring. I've certainly never had any blood blisters from that, although admittedly I'm only holding 40-45lbs. It comes as a surprise to me that the Mongolians used the ridge. I suppose on foot it could help but on horseback I don't think it'd be terribly practical.

Using a thumbring in the way I've described certainly gives a very sharp release, as the string seems to 'click' over the edge of the ring. My groupings shrink considerably with the ring....
 


Paul C

New member
The ridge on the ring I picked up in Mongolia is a very slight step, and tapered. You can still set the string at the base of the ring on your thumb, that's how I did it before I noticed the ridge and asked. That may be how the horsemen do it. I may have miss-spoke about blood blisters, what they actually said was the tip of your thumb turns blue from pooling blood if shooting a lot of arrows during a long session, and can stay blue for days.

Dorset Lass, I did get some basic instruction while trying out bows at a local Naadam, the Mongolians are very friendly and enjoy teaching foreigners how to shoot Mongol style. Also, the bowyer's English speaking daughter, whom I made the purchase from, gave me tips on stringing the bow, care and maintenance, and basic shooting technique. She also gave me links to the ATARN site, which as you know has a lot of good information, pictures, and videos.

I imagine a couple of years practice will do me well. I hope to be back in Mongolia next summer for another project, I would try to schedule some formal training.

I think you would enjoy the National Naadam Festival very much, it is quite a show.
 


ChakaZulu

New member
That certainly happens with a poorly fitted ring, but I've not heard of it if you have it properly shaped and sized. I suppose on foot you may as well use the ridge since you can...
 


Si2

New member
Congrats on your Bowman classification!
Thanks for that - I thought I'd sneak it in!!

What it's made me realise is that it's a far more difficult achievement to gain that level with an Asiatic style recurve against barebow scores. I'm barely scraping 2nd class scores with the SKB. The variation induced by using natural arrows and shooting off the hand means it's a very tough job to gain a decent classification in barebow with one of these. The BB scores are nearly three times as high as the longbow scores for Bowman.


Si2
 


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Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Thanks for that - I thought I'd sneak it in!!

What it's made me realise is that it's a far more difficult achievement to gain that level with an Asiatic style recurve against barebow scores. .... The BB scores are nearly three times as high as the longbow scores for Bowman.
Si2
Yes - I have managed First Class this year using my Kaya KTB, spine matched arrows and quite a lot of practice!! To get higher up the classification system I am going to need to get a stronger poundage bow I suspect as I am not even point on at 60yds. I know there has been a lot of sage advice about getting lighter arrows for distance, changing anchor point etc, but I do not want to spend the money on different sets of arrows and I do not want to alter my anchor point when my main discipline is field and it will confuse me I am sure!

This weekend I am competing in the Dorset and Wilts County Championships as 'barebow' with my Kaya KTB, and the way I look at it if I come last I have the perfect excuse!! My aim is to get the bow style more visible and to get judges etc to notice that there are crazy people like me competing against modern barebow people.
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Absolutely right. I got bb bowman in my first season of archery with an Olympic recurve barebow but wouldn't stand a chance with my horsebow. Just silly pitting them against each other.
 


Si2

New member
Yes - I have managed First Class this year using my Kaya KTB.
That's a fantastic achievement with this bowstyle in the GNAS BB class.
Was that target or field?

The issue with going for BM for target is that you'll be shooting 100 yards for a lot of it.
I would think a 50lb SKB would get you on the target though. My 35lb is just above.

Have you tried bamboo arrows yet?
I found them inexpesnsive, easy to make and with a great performance. Really brought my aim point down.
I think they'd be more fitting than POC as well for this type of bow.

Si
 


ChakaZulu

New member
I'll second all of that: 1st class with a horsebow is quite scarily good. Definitely try bamboo arrows, they're lighter and cooler!

100yds would be a problem but when I last did target shooting, ladies only had to shoot 80yds for BM, is that still right? Still not easy but 100yds accurately would be a pig.

I'd also suggest thumbing. It gives a really clean release that should help with accuracy over long range. A thin piece of leather beneath it also removes any pain on the thumb.
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Thanks Si and Dan - it was in target and I think it was due to sheer stubborn determination not to give up. I kept reminding myself that Koreans are able to shoot at a 2m by 3m target which is 145m away from the shooting line. To reach the level of first dan or black belt (Korean Traditonal Archery is after all a martial art) an archer has to hit the target 25 times out of 45 shots. That is impressive but if, with plenty of practice they can do it then, I figured, I should be able to be that accurate in time!

Dan is right, a lady can qualify for bowmen shooting a round with the maximum distance of 80 yards. Bear in mind that it is tougher for us ladies to pull a higher poundage bow so I think it is fair enough. My 35lb Kaya KTB is not point on at 60yds - I have to use a knuckle, but I am hoping that if I go up to 40lbs or even 45lbs I may be able to get a reasonable reference at 80yds - even if it is only a knuckle again.

I have tried bamboo arrows and really like the idea of them, but I do not have the skills to straighten and spine match them to the level that I require in order to achieve consistency at the distances I want to shoot. Seeing a Korean arrow shaft has set the standard in my mind as to what can be achieved with bamboo arrows - as straight as a metal one - very impressive!
At the moment I am shooting Scots Pine shafts which are very closely spine matched. When I shoot them I know that they will go where I want them to, providing my form is consistent (another story!). I can use these arrows for field and target, so that suits me and my budget!
 


ChakaZulu

New member
The trick is to buy your shafts ready straightened. Buy a big batch and you can spine match them from there. I've got about 100 shafts lying around the house at the moment, waiting to be spined.

At the risk of heresy, I personally don't bother about the spine. I weigh them and that's it. That said, I use quite big fletchings and shoot 50m at the furthest (first of last shot of a Hungarian round). Far more common is a shot of 6-20m in the Korean event, or about 6.5m vertically in qabaq. Spine really doesn't make much difference, in my experience. It's a bit different on the target shooting line, admittedly...
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
It's a bit different on the target shooting line, admittedly...
Yes it is!! I have seen for myself the enormous difference in consistency which is achieved by closely matched arrows. You can get away with more variation at short distances but at longer distances you need to know that each arrow is going to behave in the same way when you shoot it. I wish I had learnt this sooner in my horse bow journey !!
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Snce you're shooting bare bow, the other option would be to go carbon. Admittedly this might be counter-productive if you're looking at starting a category that would require wood/bamboo arrows, but if you're looking for something lightweight and precisely spined, there it is...

I take it you'll be coming to the BHAA champs? More details really will follow soon, I promise! It rather sounds as though you'll be the most accurate shot there, at least at distance. A lot of us don't really practise beyond aout 20yds...
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Snce you're shooting bare bow, the other option would be to go carbon. Admittedly this might be counter-productive if you're looking at starting a category that would require wood/bamboo arrows, but if you're looking for something lightweight and precisely spined, there it is...

I take it you'll be coming to the BHAA champs? More details really will follow soon, I promise! It rather sounds as though you'll be the most accurate shot there, at least at distance. A lot of us don't really practise beyond aout 20yds...
Dan I know what you mean about carbons for accuracy but that would defeat the object for me! I don't think it is 'right' to shoot asiatic recurves with man made arrows. I want to get the asiatic recurves 'out there' and demonstrate the 'style' to the wider archery fraternity. I have no desire to shoot anything else because I have set myself a challenge to try and really master the 'Way of the Horse bow'. I have a long way to go on this so I have no delusions!

Re the BHAA Champs I would love to come. I am not sure about being the most accurate shot there! Put me on a horse and it is a completely different matter! I would love to spend more time horseback training but without my own horse I am really stuck so I have to stay on the ground!
 


Dave

Administrator
Staff member
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
American Shoot
NOCO
'scuse the post from a complete ignoramus on all things Horsebowish, but I'd like to include a Horsebow class in this year's AIUK Winter League and was wondering if an 'official' Horsebow class has been established anywhere that we could use as a guide. Thanks muchly :beer:
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
'scuse the post from a complete ignoramus on all things Horsebowish, but I'd like to include a Horsebow class in this year's AIUK Winter League and was wondering if an 'official' Horsebow class has been established anywhere that we could use as a guide. Thanks muchly :beer:
Hi Dave
I do not think there has been an official horsebow class recognised but I think that the definition that The Horde came up with for the Frostbite Challenge at the end of last year was good.

Thank you very much for thinking of us horsebow people :)
 


Uller

The American
Fonz Awardee
American Shoot
Hi Dave
I do not think there has been an official horsebow class recognised but I think that the definition that The Horde came up with for the Frostbite Challenge at the end of last year was good.

Thank you very much for thinking of us horsebow people :)
Yes Dave, thanks for including us, we might just find there are more of us than we think!

The definition The Horde came up with was a quick simple one. Until we see a load of Asiatic Recurvers at a competition and can make all the bows there fit into a definition it was left sort of open (or ...ish to use the technical term :D ). The definition we had is further back in this thread...

http://www.archery-interchange.net/f13/grand-national-archery-society-gb-proposed-horse-bow-class-28929/index8.html#post406104

There is a more detailed definition that ChakaZulu posted too, one of them should fit the bill I think.
 


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