Holding at draw

ieuan_johns

New member
Hi all. Just picked up a second hand longbow and am having a good time shooting with it so far, it's planned to be my part-time activity (recurve being the main focus) during the summer.

I've had a few comments though that I should not be holding at full draw at all with it because it may damage the wood. Now I appreciate that with any material the longer it spends compressed into shape the more it will tend to permanently bow, but is holding for 2-3 seconds at full draw really going to be that much of an issue?
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Hi all. Just picked up a second hand longbow and am having a good time shooting with it so far, it's planned to be my part-time activity (recurve being the main focus) during the summer.

I've had a few comments though that I should not be holding at full draw at all with it because it may damage the wood. Now I appreciate that with any material the longer it spends compressed into shape the more it will tend to permanently bow, but is holding for 2-3 seconds at full draw really going to be that much of an issue?
Well, it's probably debatable with a modern bow (even a longbow) from a good bowyer, but it's an important point of technique. Ascham said something about the hold being more perceptible to you, the shooter, than to someone watching. So you should take the time to make the shot and not snatch it. But also, you should not hang around.

IMO, counting it in seconds (even just 2 or 3) sounds like an age. When you come up to full draw, it's either right, or it's not. If not, then you need to start again. If it's right, then you have to let go - hanging around won't make it better.
It's not like you have a clicker and a sight...
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Hit your anchor ... and... loose.
Like counting One ...and...two.
Maybe ... and 3 is ok. Longer than that is silly... I've never understood what hanging around at full draw is going to achieve, If you are not on target, then let down and come up again.
Trust me I've had a bow at full draw waiting for someone to take a picture. They were messing about and by the time they finally came to take it BANG the bow exploded.
They say a self bow at full draw is 7/8 broken, it's more like 9/10.
Of course I could make a bow that you could hold at full draw all day, but it wouldn't be as fast as one made nearer the edge.
Most bows can probably take 1" of overdraw, but you abuse them at your peril.
Laminates will be more forgiving than self bows, but the more you abuse a bow the sooner it will take set, loose cast and become like a Christmas pudding to shoot.
Del
 

Simon Banks

Active member
As Rick says it all seems like an age doing it. Was only when I videoed myself I realised quite how quick I shoot..
Between heartbeats.... ;-)



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Insanity-Rocks

New member
I hold my longbow at full draw for the same amount of time I would my AFB or barebow - a good quality longbow can take it.

I'll be at full draw for somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds - enough time to get comfy at full draw, aim, check string alignment, make sure back tension is doing what it's supposed to and then shoot a proper shot. If anything feels wrong I'll come down and try again, but don't count how long I've been at full draw for.
 

Simon Banks

Active member
Your AFB is thin strips of wood coated with fibre glass your English longbow is just made from wood..
It's a brutal way to treat a traditional wood bow... Do you bend it backwards to take out the set as well?


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Insanity-Rocks

New member
Your AFB is thin strips of wood coated with fibre glass your English longbow is just made from wood..
It's a brutal way to treat a traditional wood bow... Do you bend it backwards to take out the set as well?
I've shot thousands of arrows out of my ELB and it's not gained a set or lost any poundage yet.

I agree bows will last longer if they're not held, but I'd rather have a bow last five years shooting as I do than have it last 10 years and accept the drop in scores I know I'd get. (Not saying everyone who shoots quickly is bad, just that I know I shoot a hell of a lot better when I take my time)
 

blakey

Active member
Hi all. Just picked up a second hand longbow and am having a good time shooting with it so far, it's planned to be my part-time activity (recurve being the main focus) during the summer.

I've had a few comments though that I should not be holding at full draw at all with it because it may damage the wood. Now I appreciate that with any material the longer it spends compressed into shape the more it will tend to permanently bow, but is holding for 2-3 seconds at full draw really going to be that much of an issue?
ELB self bows and laminates do suffer from hysteresis if held too long. That's why traditionally you draw and loose without much of a hold. Of course if you're shooting warbow this kind of becomes obvious, because the poundage doesn't give your muscles much choice. :)
 

Simon Banks

Active member
I love the quick seamless techniques of high poundage archers.. Ok a lot of them don't pull the bow all the way and are clearly over-bowed. But I've witnessed some highly accurate elite archers that seem to take half a second. Effortless..


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ben tarrow

Well-known member
I always had the impression that this rule about not holding a longbow at full draw was a myth perpetuated by the failed recurvers who moved to longbow and then didnt like to admit they couldnt reach full draw and anchor properly.
 

ieuan_johns

New member
OK so in summary it seems pretty much as I thought. Holding will probably eventually lead to more permanent bowing/loss of poundage but likely not as a rapid rate (depending on the quality of the bow) if I continue my 2-3 seconds rate and don't go too far over? Thanks all.
 

jbridges

New member
I hold by bow at full draw for over 5 seconds and I have had lots of comments from people telling me I should shoot faster, pointing out about bow hysteresis etc. One of the first experiments I did when I bought a chronograph was measure the arrow velocity when holding for 0, 2 ,4 ,6, 8 and 10 seconds. Guess what? Arrow velocity remained constant. Did not change by more than 1fps. This bow was 50lbs and was also bamboo backed which may or may not influence the result. All I can say is that for the one bow I have actually tested, the data suggests to me there is no downside if you are more comfortable/confident if you hold a little longer than the convention.

Besides, if my bow breaks I have an excuse to start drooling over a new one assuming it doesn't hit me on the head that is.
 

Simon Banks

Active member
Now, now - some of us shot compounds for 20 years before trying a twangy bow. Didn't like it. One word - evolution.;)
But surely Andy if you wanted to maximise hitting a target accuracy you would be shooting a modern rifle? (I've a lovely Remington .308) ;-) since they outclass any kind of bow in every way. Pinpoint accuracy at 300m

Surely therefore we shoot our deprecated tech bows because it is the challenge in practicing the same skills our ancestors would have used?

;-)
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Surely therefore we shoot our deprecated tech bows because it is the challenge in practicing the same skills our ancestors would have used?
;-)
I'll remember that next time I pick up my engineered wood and carbon fibre bow, and launch the composite ali/carbon arrows at an expanded foam target... :)
 

blakey

Active member
I hold by bow at full draw for over 5 seconds and I have had lots of comments from people telling me I should shoot faster, pointing out about bow hysteresis etc. One of the first experiments I did when I bought a chronograph was measure the arrow velocity when holding for 0, 2 ,4 ,6, 8 and 10 seconds. Guess what? Arrow velocity remained constant. Did not change by more than 1fps. This bow was 50lbs and was also bamboo backed which may or may not influence the result. All I can say is that for the one bow I have actually tested, the data suggests to me there is no downside if you are more comfortable/confident if you hold a little longer than the convention.

Besides, if my bow breaks I have an excuse to start drooling over a new one assuming it doesn't hit me on the head that is.
That's interesting. My understanding of hysteresis is that it applies to self bows mainly. It certainly doesn't apply to AFBs. Backing a bow with bamboo, especially if it's heat treated, is a different ball game. I know GNAS in its wisdom has declared it a wood, but it isn't, it's grass. So it has a different structure and elasticity. You can tie knots in grass stems. You cannot with twigs. Papuans make bow strings out of split bamboo. I would definitely recommend anyone with a wooden ELB made out of timber not to hold. Del has already said it all. :)
 

Simon Banks

Active member
To be fair Blakey nearly All of the hundreds of AFBs I've seen are all fibre glass so it's not the same ballpark as a wooden bow.
I guess if you had a thin enough English longbow and coated it with fibre glass it would be both fast and resilient. Course it wouldn't really be a primitive bow but it's hard to tell if a bow has been treated. Apart from the obvious one that it's thin and fast and doesn't drop in speed of you hold it for long periods. ;-)


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Simon Banks

Active member
I'll remember that next time I pick up my engineered wood and carbon fibre bow, and launch the composite ali/carbon arrows at an expanded foam target... :)
I had a go with a crossbow once.. Easy no challenge. Not for me..

Primitive bows are incredibly challenging yet when you learn to let go it's effortless. Easier said than done of course.. ;-)
 
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