[Horsebow] Horsebow frustration...........

blakey

Active member
I 2nd the Samick as an awesome bow, i'm shooting mine at 45lbs and regulary over shoot at 100yrds!! I'd like to go higher with it (poundage) but wont buy a new one till this one breaks or noticably losses efficiancy.

So how would a 60lbs longbow compare to my 45lbs horsebow?

And, does anyone shop from the Hungarian feller on eBay? His GNAS regulation longbows are too expensive, but his cheaper "longbowish" bows obviously arent "regulation" (no horn nocks, arrow shelves etc). Anyone know if he could do something custom? Not too keen on ordering from abroad, but if he's got a good rep i'd use him.
I have a Samick Mongolian (SKB?) 50lb that I rarely shoot nowadays because I am trying to get good with the longbow. Another club member with a Kassai horsebow decided to glue a small arrow rest on his handle. I was impressed and did the same with mine. Because it's such a narrow handle it works very well. My Samick is the smoothest drawing bow I have ever shot, and far outranges any of my heavier longbows (65lb up). However because I would have to enter Barebow Recurve with it I do not bother because I would not be competitive. Hence my Longbow obsession. As a student of history and a lover of bows I am very interested in the concept of English Longbow v Mongolian horsebow. From my reading I see that the Mongols were shooting bows with draw weights in excess of 120lbs. I think that might just give them the edge over the English in distance, at least 50yds? However they were using much lighter arrows. Plus the Mongol horse archers did not wear the heavy armour that the French did. All moot because it never happened, but i do think the Mongols would probably have won, simply through sheer weight of numbers. When they went through Persia they fielded an army of over 300,000. Compare that to the English 6,000 at Agincourt. Last thought, I have bought from a Hungarian feller on Ebay, and would not recommend. cheers
 


Si2

New member
My Samick is the smoothest drawing bow I have ever shot, and far outranges any of my heavier longbows (65lb up). However because I would have to enter Barebow Recurve with it I do not bother because I would not be competitive. Hence my Longbow obsession.
For me that's a very telling statement. The horse bows just are not in the same league as modern recuve barebows. If there was a defined traditional Asiatic recurve class then I am sure it would be popular. If it limited the bows to natural materials then I'd invest in a nice new Grozer. In my opinion it would be best to limit anything traditional like this to natural materials. Anyone interested enough to want to shoot these bows would probably be committed enough to buy a natural one.

I would think AFBs have a similar problem, although they may possibly be closer to a modern recurve in peformance, than a horse bow shot from the hand by the thumb.

I too am thinking I should look at a longbow but I really resent being pushed down that path because the only alternative is to shoot modern barebow.

I'll be shooting my SKB as my only bow with wooden arrows for a good while yet though. I really want to do field so it's good practice for the trad class.

Si
 


steve Morley

New member
IFAA have an Historical div that allows any make of Bow before 1800's so not modern glass or carbon constrution, many Horsebows shoot in this div.


The other option is a Saluki Turk or Ibex, it's a modern version of a hosebow, glass\boo limb construction and an even have a shelf if you wish, these bows will match any modern Trad wood construction Bow out there in tourney


Me shooting Saluki Turk, I've won many tourneys with my Turk and Ibex against normal Recurves.



 


Si2

New member
that looks a nice bow - super shape and the arrow rest would mean I could shoot plastic fletched carbon arrows through the winter....

Hmm - what do they cost in the UK?

I'm off to find out..
Si
 


steve Morley

New member
Home

Lukas is a fantastic Bowyer, very good quality and has great skill with horse and Bow.

The Horn bows are stunning but come with a BIG price tag specially if you have the mother of pearl or gold leaf inlay work. I would love to own one but still waiting for my lotto numbers to come up, I'm very happy with my Turk and the Ibex is well suited to Field tourneys, it's very fast and stable for a horse bow, some are claiming +200fps out of their Saluki's, never put mine through a chrono but people watching me shoot carbons out of it though it was more like a Compound, I call it my historical Compound lol

I shot a 480g POC Field arrow across our range out of the 50# Turk last midsummer party to see how far it would go, it disappeared into our (private) woods, the edge of the wood was paced at 350 yards
 


ChakaZulu

New member
that looks a nice bow - super shape and the arrow rest would mean I could shoot plastic fletched carbon arrows through the winter....

Hmm - what do they cost in the UK?

I'm off to find out..
Si
I think you'd be better with feathers. Plastic fletches tend to bounce off the shelf a bit wildly in my experience.

In any event I should point out for completeness that whilst you may be able to use these in target and/or field (did asiatic recurves have shelves prior to 1800?), you wouldn't be able to use them for horseback archery competition, in which arrow rests/shelves are not allowed. Nor are shaped locator grips, if I recall correctly. Just in case anyone was thinking of taking to their hooves...
 


steve Morley

New member
I think you'd be better with feathers. Plastic fletches tend to bounce off the shelf a bit wildly in my experience.

In any event I should point out for completeness that whilst you may be able to use these in target and/or field (did asiatic recurves have shelves prior to 1800?), you wouldn't be able to use them for horseback archery competition, in which arrow rests/shelves are not allowed. Nor are shaped locator grips, if I recall correctly. Just in case anyone was thinking of taking to their hooves...
Lukas does a range of around 20 different Bows, the two Ibex and Turk I mentioned are modern takes on an ancient design which he will also make to shoot off the hand as he is a custom bowyer, these two I mentioned will work well for tourney shooting, he also makes authentic horn reprodutions that are better suited to IFAA Historial Div or off the back of a horse.
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
...you wouldn't be able to use them for horseback archery competition, in which arrow rests/shelves are not allowed. Nor are shaped locator grips, if I recall correctly. Just in case anyone was thinking of taking to their hooves...
Does that mean that the Kaya Traditional Korean Bow is out for horseback archery comps? (I have added a link to the Kaya website which shows the leather padded handle. It is not 'shaped' but it does have a definite handle area.) I am planning to 'take to my hooves' and thought that my KTB would have been ideal :sigh:

KAYA Archery

If I was still able to use my Kaya for horseback archery it would make me feel slightly better about deciding to splash out on a Saluki Bow complete with proper arrow shelf for field shooting. (Woohoo - what luxury!!)
 


ChakaZulu

New member
Rules vary a bit, from what have seen. One school suggests this:

# Only bows that are not center shot and without any aids may be used in competition. Only a nocking point is allowed. Examples of aids: handle or grip locator, sight window, arrow rest, stabilizer, or marking construction etc. The bow can be made of synthetic or natural materials and the draw weight is not limited.

* some allowable examples: bows of the horseback archery peoples: Scythian, Hunnish, Avar, Hungarian, Mongolian, Turkish etc.
* Asian-style bows, Chinese, Korean, and Japanese.
* European stick bows, longbows, etc.
* Bows of the peoples of North and South America.


That's Kassai, who is basically horsearchery Marmite.

The Kaya bow may not be allowed by the Kassai school, but then they basically disapprove of anything that isn't a Kassai bow. You'll be fine in this country, at EOCHA (European Open) and the World Championships. At this year's EOCHA, the Koreans were using Kaya bows (or very similar) and a Turkish archer I know uses one as well.

I have to say that I'm not convinced of the efficacy of an arrow shelf for horseback archery. It's awfully bumpy out there and you're trying to nock very quickly. It's not uncommon to have the arrow bounce off your hand, and I'm sure it'll bounce off an arrow shelf.
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Thanks ChakaZulu that is very helpful. Since I haven't actually tried horseback archery yet I think that knowing I will be able to use my bow in this country will be good enough for me. The World Championships is not exactly on the horizon!

I agree about an arrow shelf not being helpful on a horse, but for field archery against people with modern recurves - well that is a different story!

The more I hear about horseback archery the more I can't wait to try it. I have to be patient though as my designated local coach is currently at the World Champs himself! I will report back as soon as I have had my first session.
 


Dorset Lass

New member
Ironman
Hi All
I thought I would resurrect this thread rather than start a new one. Since the thread was started I am more convinced that if people get out and about shooting their horsebows, then people will realise that horsebows should not be lumped in with modern barebow recurves.

I mostly shoot field but I do shoot my Kaya KTB target in between times. I am the first person in my club to shoot a horsebow and several of the coaches and committee members have commented to me that they see it as 'unfair' that these bows are in with barebow recurve. I agree but I am pleased to say that this year I have now shot more than three first class scores with that bow, all the more sweet since the classification score levels are set for modern recurves with arrow rests. Of course I think that moving up to Bowman will be a very hard task, but if it was too easy it wouldn't be a challenge!!

I do hope that people in the GNAS will take note of the rising popularity of these bows and start to introduce horsebow categories at competitions.
 


Hi All
I thought I would resurrect this thread rather than start a new one. Since the thread was started I am more convinced that if people get out and about shooting their horsebows, then people will realise that horsebows should not be lumped in with modern barebow recurves.

I mostly shoot field but I do shoot my Kaya KTB target in between times. I am the first person in my club to shoot a horsebow and several of the coaches and committee members have commented to me that they see it as 'unfair' that these bows are in with barebow recurve. I agree but I am pleased to say that this year I have now shot more than three first class scores with that bow, all the more sweet since the classification score levels are set for modern recurves with arrow rests. Of course I think that moving up to Bowman will be a very hard task, but if it was too easy it wouldn't be a challenge!!

I do hope that people in the GNAS will take note of the rising popularity of these bows and start to introduce horsebow categories at competitions.
I'm currently shooting barebow with an old Beauchamp Hurricane "beginners bow" (nothing "beginner" about it - it's far better than me), but will be getting a Samick SKB (60#) when I have the cash, and I'll be using it for all my shooting (field and target comps etc).
 


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