Need a new release

RobinHoo

New member
Hi,

I shoot target compound with a Carter 'Fits me Too' (small hands) I've been shooting compound for two and a half years. Of late however I'm really struggling as ruddy arthritis is really playing up in my index and middle finger.

Can anyone suggest another release that would be more comfortable, obviously accuracy is everything.

It took loads of hard graft getting to Bowman with the next seasons aim being MB. I've got the winter to try new things, any advice would be great.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
would switching to a resistance activated release, such as the Carter Evolution, be an option? Thumb off the safety and then just pull. Also comes in a small size.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
arthritis is one of those things you need to find a way around in archery; laying off for a while just doesn't work. I have arthritis in both shoulders, diagnosis was shooting too long at too high a draw weight. Que Sera. It may be worth looking at a wrist release such as those below from Carter.

Carter Enterprises - Whatever

Some archers will tell you they are bad for developing release twitches. They can be, but if used correctly they are as good as any finger held release and operated in the same way as hinge or thumb trigger releases. They do seem to be making a bit of a comeback at the highest level of compound archery.
 

RobinHoo

New member
Thanks chaps, I've been a bit stressed of late as my 'hands' are doing my nut, I should have said I use a Evo as well, tbh KidCurry I started on a wrist and only went to hand because an old chap at the club said they're for noobs and not as accurate. I have an old RX1 lying around somewhere, do you think I can maintain my progress with that or shall I get something like the 'Whatever'.

Many many thanks to the Toxy masses:cheerful:
 

bimble

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I started on a wrist and only went to hand because an old chap at the club said they're for noobs and not as accurate.
Someone should tell Dietmar Trillus that... 2007 World Champion, 2008 World Cup final winner, 2010 Las Vegas winner, wrist release user... ;)
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
Thanks chaps, I've been a bit stressed of late as my 'hands' are doing my nut, I should have said I use a Evo as well, tbh KidCurry I started on a wrist and only went to hand because an old chap at the club said they're for noobs and not as accurate. I have an old RX1 lying around somewhere, do you think I can maintain my progress with that or shall I get something like the 'Whatever'.

Many many thanks to the Toxy masses:cheerful:
The RX1 is a top class release. The only reason my post link came up with 'Whatever' was because it was top of the Carter page that I cut and paste :) Here is a youtube link to Dietmar Trillus at the World cup 2010. Check out both archers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jUq5Ab8dqc
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
That chap that broke the 90m World record uses a wrist release...!

I'm currently experimenting with both. No firm conclusions yet.
When I'm "on it" I seem more accurate with the hand held (thumb trigger but used like a back tension) but when even slightly off form, it all goes pear shaped. With a wrist release I seem to even out the peaks and troughs a bit. In neither case am I particularly good...
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I have to come clean and say the archer is the thing that makes the difference.
The hair trigger that is often associated with the simple mechanisms in some low priced wrist strap releases, is something that can so easily lead into being hesitant, as they can go off as soon as you touch the trigger; and often that is TOO soon. The shot goes before you are fully ready. Next shot is a deliberate attempt at not shooting too soon, rather than focussing on how it should be done. A stiff trigger gives you the chance to get your finger or thumb onto it without having any worries about releasing accidentally. A security like that is a great advantage.
The stiff trigger, does require a deliberate effort to activate it; especially when you are learning how it should be done. The deliberate triggering sets the pattern that has to be copied on all the rest of the shots. It's like fastening laces; it takes a lot of concentration at first; but eventually we tie them without even looking. Fastening laces is far more complex than activating a trigger.
The biggest problem with triggering any release aid is to find some shots go too late and only a few go on time. The archer then wonders what is wrong with the release aid; perhaps the trigger is set too stiff etc etc.
The chances are, the amount of triggering pressure is not the same shot to shot. We anticipate when it should go, or we get distracted by the sight, and leave the triggering to chance. Triggering is a skill in itself. Changing settings or changing the release aid, simply means we have to start the learning process all over again.
Get a release aid with a decent trigger and make it work by deliberately triggering to one plan; the same plan every shot.
Don't try shooting scores while learning how to get the shot to go off as you planned. Shoot with a sight and a target to aim at, but focus on what you are doing to the trigger. Make sure you are drawing the bow while you are adding pressure to the trigger. If you ease up on the pulling, you are changing the shot pattern. Score each shot by how closely you kept to the plan. Score 1 if you stuck to the plan and score 0 if you didn't.
It is rewarding, but not a social event. It takes a lot of concentration and will power.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I have to come clean and say the archer is the thing that makes the difference.
The hair trigger that is often associated with the simple mechanisms in some low priced wrist strap releases, is something that can so easily lead into being hesitant, as they can go off as soon as you touch the trigger; and often that is TOO soon. The shot goes before you are fully ready. Next shot is a deliberate attempt at not shooting too soon, rather than focussing on how it should be done. A stiff trigger gives you the chance to get your finger or thumb onto it without having any worries about releasing accidentally. A security like that is a great advantage.
The stiff trigger, does require a deliberate effort to activate it; especially when you are learning how it should be done. The deliberate triggering sets the pattern that has to be copied on all the rest of the shots. It's like fastening laces; it takes a lot of concentration at first; but eventually we tie them without even looking. Fastening laces is far more complex than activating a trigger.
The biggest problem with triggering any release aid is to find some shots go too late and only a few go on time. The archer then wonders what is wrong with the release aid; perhaps the trigger is set too stiff etc etc.
The chances are, the amount of triggering pressure is not the same shot to shot. We anticipate when it should go, or we get distracted by the sight, and leave the triggering to chance. Triggering is a skill in itself. Changing settings or changing the release aid, simply means we have to start the learning process all over again.
Get a release aid with a decent trigger and make it work by deliberately triggering to one plan; the same plan every shot.
Don't try shooting scores while learning how to get the shot to go off as you planned. Shoot with a sight and a target to aim at, but focus on what you are doing to the trigger. Make sure you are drawing the bow while you are adding pressure to the trigger. If you ease up on the pulling, you are changing the shot pattern. Score each shot by how closely you kept to the plan. Score 1 if you stuck to the plan and score 0 if you didn't.
It is rewarding, but not a social event. It takes a lot of concentration and will power.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
What I have to say here only applies only to wrist releases.

I have to say that I agree with Geoff, the archer is the thing that makes the difference. From there on however I totally disagree. the thing with cheaper wrist releases is that the trigger pressure needed to set off the release changes with the load on the jaws of the release. This means unless you put backtension on before you locate the trigger the trigger pressure is lighter. Geoff's solution heavier, trigger pressure has unwanted side effects. The ' deliberate effort' takes time in which thoughts such as 'when is it going to go off ' and that can lead to anticipation and snatching. A light trigger requires less attention, a frim touch and the arrow is gone, allowing the archer to concentrate more on the aim and back tension.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
What I have to say here only applies only to wrist releases.

I have to say that I agree with Geoff, the archer is the thing that makes the difference. From there on however I totally disagree. the thing with cheaper wrist releases is that the trigger pressure needed to set off the release changes with the load on the jaws of the release. This means unless you put backtension on before you locate the trigger the trigger pressure is lighter. Geoff's solution heavier, trigger pressure has unwanted side effects. The ' deliberate effort' takes time in which thoughts such as 'when is it going to go off ' and that can lead to anticipation and snatching. A light trigger requires less attention, a frim touch and the arrow is gone, allowing the archer to concentrate more on the aim and back tension.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Jerry, I don't think we totally disagree, in the way you say.
I think that your ideas are valid; the things you point out can happen as you say.
A light trigger can require less attention, as you say. A light trigger can cause hesitation brought on by shots going off too soon.
We are both pointing out things that new archers need to be aware of.
Sometimes when we post we look at the way we operate having gone through the learning process and already reached the stage where things are automatic. Before that stage, we need to have a plan to work to and deliberately set about sticking to the plan. Your light trigger and firm touch had to be learnt deliberately at the beginning otherwise it could have varied because you didn't follow a plan.
If the archer in question has a plan, and they stick to it, any of the " known to work" plans can bring good shot executions.
I have tried several different types of release aid and tried different ways of operating them. It seems that none of them work!!
They didn't work, because I didn't work hard enough at sticking to the plan I set for myself.
It took a few years of disappointment to make me see the folly in my approach.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
You only get shots going off too soon if you are squeezing them off. That's not how I shoot for me that way leads to chaos. Get everything aligned pin in the centre touch the finger on the trigger apply the last bit of back tension minimum float and a quick firm movement of the trigger finger arrow gone, no time to hesitate. The best way I can explain it is to equate the movement to the way you left or right click a mouse button. The pressure and speed of clicking the mouse button is exactly how I use the trigger.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Jerry, I think you may be seeing this from the point of view of the archer who has already mastered the triggering. There are those who are learning from the beginning and making mistakes. It is much the same story with a hinge. Those who have learnt how to manage one find them very good and very safe. There are others who find they have made an error and the shot has gone long before the draw was completed. The arrows fly in all sorts of directions and the fear of that happening again is a real worry.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
Hi Jerry, I think you may be seeing this from the point of view of the archer who has already mastered the triggering. There are those who are learning from the beginning and making mistakes. It is much the same story with a hinge. Those who have learnt how to manage one find them very good and very safe. There are others who find they have made an error and the shot has gone long before the draw was completed. The arrows fly in all sorts of directions and the fear of that happening again is a real worry.
Indeed it is! :worried::cryin:
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I feel your pain!! But, dry your eyes and sit down while I tell you a story.
When we are learning to ride a bike, most of us will fall off before the day comes when we say we can ride. That can add some fear to the next session, but we weigh up whether to go ahead or leave it alone. I lived on a steep hill and learning to ride on that was frightening. If I did get a few yards with both feet off the ground, the speed was reaching sound barrier levels and getting off was more frightening than falling off at a standstill.
I gave up and returned to try again some years later when we moved to a house on the level.
I would look at release aids in a similar way. You can always return to a frightening one after you feel comfortable with the one you have chosen to use, for now. There is a process going on that is linked solidly to the release aid management. That process is the one that happens TO you when the string leaves the jaw.It is the same for finger shooters and recurves or longbows. The process is about what our bodies do during the bow's power stroke. Mainly our arms and shoulders as they are the main moving parts at that stage.
You have already posted that you feel a difference when you continue to pull while the trigger is being activated. That pulling works just like pulling Christmas crackers. The two halves of the cracker fly apart as do the hands that hold them; even if they belong to two people or just one.
That flying apart, is the sign that you did continue the pull. When there is no flying apart it means the archer has stiffened up almost as if frightened of what is to come. That is not the same fear we get after a messed up shot that sends arrows all over the place. The flying apart is something we learn to feel good about; we just have to get over the surprise of it first, before we can relax about it happening.
When I first made a shot where my arms flew apart as described, I had been shooting compound for nearly twenty years!!! Why had I never felt that way before???? Because I had been resisting those movements that happen to us. AND the resistance had to be put in place before the release started otherwise I would have been too late to prevent them. We are now into anticipating the release... and that is done at the expense of making a sound release.
Again, I advise short range shooting with no sight for now, so close you can't miss the boss; just to focus on how it feels when you trigger with nothing to fear and nothing to suppress. You will feel the power of the power stroke as if you generated it, just like smacking a ball with a baseball bat.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I feel your pain!! But, dry your eyes and sit down while I tell you a story.
When we are learning to ride a bike, most of us will fall off before the day comes when we say we can ride. That can add some fear to the next session, but we weigh up whether to go ahead or leave it alone. I lived on a steep hill and learning to ride on that was frightening. If I did get a few yards with both feet off the ground, the speed was reaching sound barrier levels and getting off was more frightening than falling off at a standstill.
I gave up and returned to try again some years later when we moved to a house on the level.
I would look at release aids in a similar way. You can always return to a frightening one after you feel comfortable with the one you have chosen to use, for now. There is a process going on that is linked solidly to the release aid management. That process is the one that happens TO you when the string leaves the jaw.It is the same for finger shooters and recurves or longbows. The process is about what our bodies do during the bow's power stroke. Mainly our arms and shoulders as they are the main moving parts at that stage.
You have already posted that you feel a difference when you continue to pull while the trigger is being activated. That pulling works just like pulling Christmas crackers. The two halves of the cracker fly apart as do the hands that hold them; even if they belong to two people or just one.
That flying apart, is the sign that you did continue the pull. When there is no flying apart it means the archer has stiffened up almost as if frightened of what is to come. That is not the same fear we get after a messed up shot that sends arrows all over the place. The flying apart is something we learn to feel good about; we just have to get over the surprise of it first, before we can relax about it happening.
When I first made a shot where my arms flew apart as described, I had been shooting compound for nearly twenty years!!! Why had I never felt that way before???? Because I had been resisting those movements that happen to us. AND the resistance had to be put in place before the release started otherwise I would have been too late to prevent them. We are now into anticipating the release... and that is done at the expense of making a sound release.
Again, I advise short range shooting with no sight for now, so close you can't miss the boss; just to focus on how it feels when you trigger with nothing to fear and nothing to suppress. You will feel the power of the power stroke as if you generated it, just like smacking a ball with a baseball bat.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
Indeed it is! :worried::cryin:
the following refers to a wrist release.
There is nothing to 'Master' in triggering it is that simple, it's just like clicking a mouse button. Do you hear of anyone complaining that they have a hair trigger on their mouse button and can't control it? of course not.
If you don't get the 'fly apart' then the reason is simple, you have not put the back tension on. Back tension is vital , it is what brings things into alignment. It is what stops creeping out of the valley and snatching. It also gives us the follow through the flyapart. It is a sign that you have made the shot properly you should look for it every time. What is harder is building the link between sight picture and trigger activation you cannot learn that by taking the sight off.
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Again, I advise short range shooting with no sight for now, so close you can't miss the boss; just to focus on how it feels when you trigger with nothing to fear and nothing to suppress. You will feel the power of the power stroke as if you generated it, just like smacking a ball with a baseball bat.
From my earlier post, I was explaining one way to get some freedom to work on just the feeling. The feeling we both agree is vital( take the sight off FOR NOW) The sight will need to go back on in order to put everything together, as you say.
 
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