number of strands

dottorfoggy

Member
have 8125 G 1/4 18 strands right now on 72" #43 an close to 33" draw. my question is, can 14 strands hold or will it break?

i want to have a faster response from limbs and less fluctuations, it seem a little bit heavy right now

i can try 16 or even 14 strand on my setup, or can damage the string it self and limbs?
 


dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
I use 10 stands of Angel on a 36 lb bow and have never had any issue. I pad the loops for limb protection and the centre serving for nock fit though.
 


Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Lol. It's likely that every one of those strands could take the full weight of your bow...

But I don't think you're likely to gain a lot by cutting out a few strands, especially since you will have to consider the nock fit, which may end up needing material added under the serving to make it work.

I mean, sure, play with strand counts between 14 and 18 (doesn't have to be even numbers...). See if it has an effect.

When thinking about limb damage: The arrow weight is a far bigger consideration (and whether they will stay nocked). If you're concerned about the end loops, then build them up a bit.
 


dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
Yes but it saves expensive material. When I bought my first spool of Angel I could not believe the price. It cost the same as my first riser. And when it arrived on my doormat I thought that I had been sent the wrong spool size.

Anyway I justify it in technical terms by claiming it helps to offset the extra serving that I put on for string walking.
 


Del the Cat

Well-known member
I've used 12 strands on a 150# Warbow and 6 strands on a 70# flight bow no problem.
Loops and centre serving can be padded with extra strands if required for fit.
Del
 


ThomVis

Member
have 8125 G 1/4 18 strands right now on 72" #43 an close to 33" draw. my question is, can 14 strands hold or will it break?

i want to have a faster response from limbs and less fluctuations, it seem a little bit heavy right now
14 stands 8125G won't break.
If you want less fluctuations, you want to consider a heavier string. The thinner the string the lighter it is, the more impact an inconsistent release will have.
I've used a 16 stand 8125G string just to get that extra power into my arrows that were tuning stiff. Yes they tuned better, but groups opened up on the longer distances. A slow ten is better than a fast nine. YMMV, so do experiment.

And nock fit can be tailored on any stand count (within limits) with the right diameter serving, or padding the string with some extra stands under the serving.
 


ash

New member
what you gain in speed from less strands you'll loose in forgiveness which is one of the reasons people use 18+ strands and don't forget comfort. a thicker string should feel softer in the fingers where as a thinner string may feel like a wire cutting you. by all means experiment.
 


dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
Why is it more forgiving do you think? Is it that it rolls out of the fingers more easily or is it something else?
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
i want to have a faster response from limbs and less fluctuations, it seem a little bit heavy right now
I am not clear what the faster response is about or what the fluctuations are, that you mention.
Can you explain what the bow will be like when those two things are sorted? Have you, for instance shot another bow and found that one is " better" that yours and want yours to be more like that one?
 


ash

New member
good question :)
i think it causes the arrow to leave the bow a little slower allowing the arrow to self correct (hopefully) and a thicker stranded string tends to mask release errors.
around 5+ years ago i shot with a 16 strand string and then switched back to 18s at the advice of my fellow GB archers and their coaches and they were right as my grouping, BH tune was better on a 18s for the reasons stated.

extra info for OP.
so to add to what i said post7, yesterday i shot with my spare string fitted with bieter nock point which has plastic nock and little extra serving to hold it in place. my sight marks dropped by 4mm compared to my normal custom made string. so if you do indeed go with the thinner string option and thicker center serving you may still end up with crap sight marks and a less forgiving string.

tip.
if your making your own strings you can make the loop serving shorter, by making only going past the limb grove by 1/2 inch and you could make your center serving go only a 1inch top/bot past tab which will help reduce string weight.
 


Whitehart

Well-known member
tip.
if your making your own strings you can make the loop serving shorter, by making only going past the limb grove by 1/2 inch and you could make your center serving go only a 1inch top/bot past tab which will help reduce string weight.
This is an interesting point but in reality all you do IMO is save serving, the other day I removed 3" of No 4 from a string and the serving material weighed less than a grain. (for those that do not know what a grain is borrow a set of grain scales and blow gently on the tray if you can blow light enough to register below 5 grains you are doing well). Weight removed from the middle of a recurve string has more effect than the ends hence why you see a difference swapping brass nocking points.

The Koreans still use Fastflight - it is considered slower than newer materials, but it gives a more stable consistent shot, my own limited tests suggest that a thicker string is slower and more forgiving of release errors, speed is not always the answer to accuracy.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I often wonder about the string and how it might fit into the arrow flex and arrow sway cycle.
The string has its own frequency of vibration when it is released. Just like a string instrument has. That frequency will have a lot to do with the tension the string is under from the bow and the weight of the string. Not just the total weight but the way the weight is distributed along its length.
The arrow sways and flexes during the same power stroke. The tail sways at the same rate as the string, as they are connected. The arrow flexes according to its spine and length... a very different frequency I imagine.
BUT I guess the string has an effect on the arrow and the arrow has an effect on the string. They change each other's natural vibration/sway pattern.
We know that small changes to brace height can alter the flight of the arrows, as seen in bare shaft tests. I wonder if a forgiving string, if there is such a thing, is a combination of the two natural oscillations/vibration and some are better than others as regards shooting consistency.Or damage limitation on poor releases.
 


Stretch

Active member
A friend of mine moons ago had a theory that he'd shoot 90 and 70 with 16 strand. Then swap to 18strand for 50 and 30m. With a button change. He shot fine that way (1200+). Then he put it through a chrono and found that the arrow speed was pretty much the same with both. Some part of the setup was nulling the lighter string with an efficiency gain. Never assume too much.

I've always shot fatter strings because I find them more comfortable in my fingers, that comfort makes me more relaxed which in turn improves results. No speed gain from the strand count change would improve by results as such. Also if you go thinner you often see people adding layers to the tab, which agin can null the speed gain.

Has anyone ever measured the weight difference of those 2 strands? I can't believe it is a lot, so while it is a moving part, so a good place to loose weight for speed gain, I doubt it is enough to be hugely significant.

The frequency peice is interesting and I guess could be measured. But not sure how you'd model that to good results/forgiveness. What is forgiving for you might not be what is forgiving for me because our mistakes are not the same. Too complicated :)

Stretch
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
The frequency peice is interesting and I guess could be measured. But not sure how you'd model that to good results/forgiveness. What is forgiving for you might not be what is forgiving for me because our mistakes are not the same. Too complicated :)
Modelling would be difficult. I guess it would take folks with equipment that could find the string's natural frequency on the bow in question. Add weights to specific places( experts might know of nodes etc.) shoot some bareshafts and get an area mapped on the target.
Chnge the weights and/or positions and repeat. See what effect there is on the bareshafts' landing zone.
I don't think the up down changes that could be speed related are the issue, but a chrono might help to run alongside the tests.
I might expect a change to the left/ right impacts of the bareshafts or possibly a change in group size.
Changing string weight I think might show up on the chrono, but if the thinking has any merit I am expecting something to happen suddenly at a particular weight /or position of the weights on the string.
Perhaps at some point the string vibration is naturally out of phase with the swing rate of the arrow shaft, and gives the arrow a straighter path as opposed to an elongated S shape.
Forgiveness is something I have heard about; it isn't something real as far as I know. having seen videos of situations where wind causes items to wave about to the point where they tear themselves free or to pieces, I can see that vibrations can have effects that might be better reduced for our own good. Perhaps string vibration could be put to better use as opposed to seeing it as bond to happen just as arrow flex is bound to happen
We spend time matching spine to draw weight. I know some compound bows fit weights to strings in strategic.... perhaps there is some connection.
 


dottorfoggy

Member
Thanks a lot to every one, in those 2 weeks I'm in italy for two weeks intensive training, I will upgrade stab and shaft. When I will be back home I'll try a 16 strand from my actual 18. My goal is to shot 1200+ :)

Lot of good point on your answer, really interesting.
Having a72" and 33" draw, I think I have to find the better way to have a faster bow to have less vibration. Let's see the feedback from the ACE and S3 stab :)
 


dottorfoggy

Member
Ok, i finally get the chance to try new stab, a Fiberbow s3 32"-15"-3" and Easton ace. Now I dont have any kind of vibration. The biggest problem was my old stab that can't handle bow power, was too light, center rod was also re-glued with a soft glud, too soft that create vibration.
Really really happy right now :D
 


dottorfoggy

Member
Now I'm shooting with a new string color, from orange fluo to blue, 8125g with 0.18 serving but it looks like the nock fit too tight with the beiter 1. Is somewhere a "chart" for number of strand and serving diameter for nock size?
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
If you make your own strings, only do a short amount of centre serving and find out what tension gives the best nock fit.
If you do your own centre serving on a pre made string, try the same short serving and test before you finalise.
 


Rik

Supporter
Supporter
Sometimes, if it's close, you can do the trick of serving twice. The first time you do the bit in the middle really tight (as tight as you can make it). Then undo it and serve at normal tension.
 


dottorfoggy

Member
I will try this weekend to fix it

I found this on the web:

Nock Fits for BCY 8125 or 8125G String
Beiter or Easton large-groove nock
20 strands w/ 0.015” serving, 18 strands w/ 0.018” serving, 16 strands w/0.021” serving Beiter small-groove nock or Fivics large-groove nock
18 strands w/ 0.015” serving, 16 strands w/ 0.018” serving, 14 strands w/ 0.021” serving Easton or Fivics small-groove nock
16 strands w/ 0.015” serving, 14 strands w/0.018” serving, 12 strands w/ 0.021” serving McKinney nock
22 strands w/ 0.015” serving, 20 strands w/ 0.018” serving, 18 strands w/0.021” serving

Beiter or bcy don't have it's own table?
 


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