Raising sight block

MWelch

New member
Hi all, hope you can help as I can?t find any info on this question anywhere on the internet!

Ive just bought my first bow together with an Avalon Tec one sight. I?m currently only shooting 20 or 30 yds with 26# limbs (my draw length is 27.5?, Easton xx75 platinum plus arrow spine 1716). I?ve currently got the horizontal bar out virtually as long as possible as I understand this is the best option for accuracy. However, I?m finding that my sight settings are quite low down and would not be able to shoot 40 yds in its current set up. Ive tried bringing the sight closer to the riser but it doesn?t make significant difference to the settings. The vertical bar goes down to 11 and my settings are 5 and 8.7 so half of the vertical bar is obsolete.

In my mind if I move the actual sight block to the top of the vertical bar, this would move my settings for 20 yds closer to the top and then leave me more room for further adjustment at longer distances. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning or will doing this cause me any issues?
 


dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
The vertical rail that the sight block runs on often connects to the sight bar with Allen bolts that allow the rail to be repositioned, usually by screwing into alternate holes.

Be careful to maintain clearance with the arrow if you reposition the rail, though.
 


ben tarrow

Active member
Where do you anchor Themaid?
Under your chin, side of your face?
The symptoms you describe sound like what our novices get when they try to mix sights with point of aim and forget they should be anchoring under their chin with one finger above the arrow and 2 below, with the string down the centre of the nose and chin
 


dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
Where do you anchor Themaid?
Under your chin, side of your face?
The symptoms you describe sound like what our novices get when they try to mix sights with point of aim and forget they should be anchoring under their chin with one finger above the arrow and 2 below, with the string down the centre of the nose and chin
Yes, that's a good point. Get someone to check your form before fiddling with your gear.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Instead of bringing the extension in towards the riser, move it to the inside position( slide the extension in from the string side of the riser so the scale bar ends up between the string and the riser rather than out in front of the riser.) The scale bar will be upside down but that can be sorted after you find out if you can reach longer distances using the sight that way round.
 


MWelch

New member
I anchor with my index finger under my chin with the ledge of my finger tab under my jaw and the string touching my chin and nose (perhaps slightly off centre). Someone at the club has watched me shoot and the only comments on my form is that I have a tendency to raise my bow shoulder and my release needs working on (since moving up to 26# I’m struggling to increase back tension)

geoffretired, why does moving the sight inside make a differences? I can’t fathom that at all and I like to understand why I’m doing something. Does it matter how far the sight is then in front of the string. Is it still a case of the further away the better? Also can you tell me what would be wrong with moving the sight block to the top of the rail. It’s probably all very simple to experienced archers but for us newbies it’s a very steep learning curve and it’s making my brain hurt!!!

Thanks
 


ben tarrow

Active member
This just sounds very odd. I feel we are missing an obvious but illusive point here.
With 26# draw weight, you should be getting a sight mark on the standard factory setup bowsight at 40/50 yards easily. I have small juniors who achieve that.

Can you post a photo of your bow (setup ready to shoot) and maybe one of you at full draw?
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Good questions.
When you watch an archer shooting at longer distances, as you will be doing soon, you will notice the extension bar of the sight is pointing uphill just like the arrow does,yes?
When you bring the extension in towards the riser, as you mentioned, it is like sliding the extension into the bow and it slides downhill; nearer to the ground.( but not nearer to the arrow.)As it moves down closer to the ground it also moves down in relation to your aiming eye. If the change could be made to happen while you were aiming, you would see the sight move down and you would need to raise the the bow to get the sight back up to the gold.
It doesn't seem to make any difference if you make the adjustment while you are holding the bow in front of you to loosen it off.
Try this; set the sight so the sight ring is level with the extension bar, and put a pencil or similar through one of the holes nearer the other end of the extension.( if your extension has no holes, fix a cocktail stick or similar with blu tac near the other end of the extension bar so it points across like the sight pin does.)

Hold the sight out at arms length, as if on aim and make sure the extension bar is slightly uphill as it would be when shooting. Point the sight at something near eye level and notice the pencil appears lower than the target you are aiming the sight at. If that is working for you, then you can imagine the sight inside the bow will appear even lower down.
As for moving the sight block up to the top of the rail, I am not too clear how you mean that.
Let me try to explain the aiming in a different way. Imagine you are aiming with the arrow point. At full draw you point the tip of the arrow at the gold and let go. If you are the right distance away, for you, the arrow will hit the gold or close enough.,Yes?
Imagine you walk closer to the target and do the same thing. Point of arrow on the gold and let go. The arrow lands high this time. Right?
So, next arrow you will point below the gold to get it to land lower down the target. When get that right you will be able to walk closer and try again and find the arrow has to be pointed even further down. You are now "gap" shooting, because there is a gap between the arrow point and the gold you want to hit.
There will be a different gap for every distance you want to shoot. The gap gets bigger as you move closer. If you held your hand out at arms length you could estimate the size of each gap by comparing the gap to something you carry with you. let's say the first gap is the same as the thickness of your little finger when pointed at arms length at the gold. The gaps might be two and three and four fingers as you walk closer each time.
Now imagine you are back at that first distance where the arrow point was on the gold and you hit the gold. IF you put a sight on the bow this time, a simple one fixed to the riser with no extension, the sight would have to be right down on the arrow. That would get damaged. If, however, you moved closer as you did for that second shot, the sight could be the same distance above the arrow as the gap was for that shot. You could set the sight a little finger thickness above the arrow. Now when you shoot you point the sight at the gold knowing that the arrow is one finger lower.
You could get sight marks for all the other distances by using your fingers. Later on you might want to use the numbers on the scale to remember where the sight has to be for the different distances.
The important thing about the sight position is that it has to represent the gap that you saw between arrow point and gold for each distance.
Themaid, I hope that is of some help. There is a bit more to explain, but for now I feel my brain hurting and need a coffee. Let me know if any of it makes sense or not. There are some drawings I can make that might help, but I need to test how I can get them onto the forum first.
 


MWelch

New member
Ben, sorry but I can?t work out how to post photos. People at the club have checked the setup and have said that it is fine and arrows are flying nicely. My old club bow and cheap cartel sight would probably have been fine at 40yds and maybe 50 so yes that is why I?m confused.

Thanks geoffretired. When I first read your message I was as confused as ever.........until I actually tried out what you suggested with the pencil. Hurray, I now understand, I think. I can see how moving the sight inside and closer to the eye will make the sight adjustments smaller. If I?m still having problems when I move to 40 yds, then this is what I?ll do. In the meantime, I?ll move the extension bar in till the distance is more like my old club cartel sight so things will feel as they used to be and I can just get on with enjoying my new bow. When I?m happy with that, I?ll start to experiment with settings.

with regard to moving the mounting block, I didn?t explain it very well. The vertical bar has a number of holes and the extension bar is attached to the vertical through them. So if you attach the extension bar to the vertical in any of the holes other than the prefixed centres, What effect does this have?

Thanks
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
I can't post the pics I have. sorry. I can email them if you like.
The pictures are simple enough to draw. I drew round part of a cd/dvd.
For one pic the bow is shooting at short range. I drew round the cd from 11 o'clock to 7 o'clock and marked the centre through the hole. Join the spot for centre to top limb and bottom to draw the string. An oval for the head goes so the chin would be close to the string nock point. Mark an eye. Draw in the arrow level from the nock point and just beyond the bow. Draw in a line of sight level as is about right at all distances.
For pic two I was drawing a bow raised for distance shooting so I drew round the cd/dvd from 12 o'clock to 8 o'clock and marked the centre through the hole again. Draw the string and the head and the eye and the eye line level. HE/she is still looking at the same target but it is further away.
lastly, draw in the arrow from string nock to a point half way up the bow approx. The right place will bring the arrow point just below the eye line that was drawn earlier.
I will stop there so that you can either make the drawings for your self and let me know. Or I can add the rest to an emailRasing the sight block is esier to explain with pictures to hand.
 


ben tarrow

Active member
In the meantime, I’ll move the extension bar in till the distance is more like my old club cartel sight
Thanks
Is the extension on your new sight significantly longer than on your old sight?

As for the bowsight being closer into the bow being the same as moving the sight down, here is a sketch


With the bowsight extension fully out, the aim is higher than if the bowsight is pulled further in
 


ThomVis

Member
Hi Ben, nice pics How did you get the pic on the page?
Find the URL of the picture you want to show, then place the
behind it.

Different forum software, but the code in the text box is the same:


Picture must be online for this. For local pictures you first need to host them on Imagetitan or something.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter

It worked! even I can do it!!
The archer at the top is aiming at a close target and the arrow is almost level. The bottom archer is aiming at a distance and the arrow is elevated.The eye line is level in both pics, but notice the arrow point is on the line of sight in lower pic, so the arrow will appear to be pointing at the gold.
If a sight was fitted to the bow, the top pic would have it mounted at the eyeline, a good distance above the arrow.
For the long range, the sight would be mounted at the eye line which is also where the arrow is, so it could be shot off.
The long range pic shows maximum range for seeing the gold without the arrow point obscuring it.( unless the arrow is lowered at the back by anchoring lower than the chin, or by holding the string higher up.The pic assumes one above and two under... so three fingers above the arrow would raise the arrow elevation.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Themaid, now there are pictures I can try to explain the bit about raising the sight block.
If you look at the previous post you will notice that what really matters is where the arrow is pointing at full draw. The sight gives a gap that was mentioned in an earlier post. So, the block itself can be fitted in top holes or bottom ones but what matters once that has been fixed is that the sight you look through will still need to be at the same gap above the arrow for the distance you are shooting. If, for example you moved the scale up and away from the arrow, then the sight you look through would have to be moved back down to be the same distance from the arrow as before for the distance you are shooting. The numbers will have changed but that's because THEY have been moved so are not measuring the gap in the same way after the change.
 


MWelch

New member
Thank you all, especially Ben and Geoffretired. Those pictures together with your advice is helping me get to grips with it all.

Ben, yes the extension bar is more than twice as long which was why I was struggling to understand where to start. I have now moved the extension bar in by about a quarter of its total length which still leaves the remaining horizontal bar much further forward than the club one. I have also moved the vertical block up one screw hole. I can now comfortably shoot 30 yds with plenty of scope left to get to 40. As and when I ever get to 50 yds plus I will look at geoffretired’s Suggestion to move the sight to the inside of the riser.

Once again........thanks for all your help
 


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