Scottish Government Lockdown Ideas Page

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
The Scottish Government has set up a page for ideas for easing the lockdown.

There seem to be huge numbers of people there wanting restrictions to be eased for solo outdoor sporting activities, or outdoor sports that can be practised using social distancing.

I think that is a sensible idea, you may not. But anyway, Scottish chums may want to go and express their opinions, for or against.


David
 
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Stretch

Active member
Social distancing is easy enough where clubs have permanent sites. But I don’t see how most clubs could truly implement social distancing while setting up and taking down indoor and outdoor ranges? The equipment handling (excuse me for the double entendre) would be close to impossible without high grade and expensive PPE that people would need to be trained to use.

Not throwing spanners, I just don’t see how most clubs could do it. At least not to the level expected by HSE for industry which is surely the safety benchmark.

2p

Stretch
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
I admit that it would be difficult for clubs that don't have their targets up permanently, but a lot do (pretty much all of the field sites).

Field courses being open while target clubs are closed would not be perfect, but it would be a good first step in my opinion.
 
I admit that it would be difficult for clubs that don't have their targets up permanently, but a lot do (pretty much all of the field sites).

Field courses being open while target clubs are closed would not be perfect, but it would be a good first step in my opinion.

err - apart from the fact that you'd have to wear gloves all the way around.

Think about it for one second:


Archer A has the virus, but feels absolutely fine apart from a slight cough. He also has a habit of licking his fingers when flipping over sheets of paper in his target id book. He shoots the course, coughing slightly into his left hand as he walks up to each target after shooting and using his left hand to brace each target as he pulls his arrows.

Each and every target is now infected.

Archer B comes along, he was fine - but because he didn't see anyone around he didn't bother with gloves, shoots round and eats a sandwich at the end of the round, using his left hand.

Archer B is now infected, goes home, and starts to feel unwell about a week later. In the meantime, he's infected everyone else in his house. :(

The problem is not just being face to face with people, it's also infected people infecting objects (even the very air).


There was a reason that ships used to be in absolute quarantine for 40 days (the literal meaning of quarantine). Anybody who is able to withstand the virus will get it, and survive, and NOT be infectious when they leave, thus the virus spread is halted completely. As a society we are now far too self-centred to even contemplate doing "the right thing for society" if it impinges in anyway on our own freedoms. :(
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
which is why you're supposed to be washing your hands before doing things like eating or touching your face if you've been out. That's a standard recommendation for the last couple of months.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
It's not just the safety aspect of archery, setting up, toilet breaks, keeping distances, it's also the logistics of freeing up the population. People start driving to their club, need petrol, some will breakdown, some will have accidents. Some will see this as a reason to drive anywhere. I think business comes first, then shops, then public open spaces, then outside sports. This could be 6-8 weeks away. Inside sports could well be months away.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
err - apart from the fact that you'd have to wear gloves all the way around.

Think about it for one second:


Archer A has the virus, but feels absolutely fine apart from a slight cough. He also has a habit of licking his fingers when flipping over sheets of paper in his target id book. He shoots the course, coughing slightly into his left hand as he walks up to each target after shooting and using his left hand to brace each target as he pulls his arrows.

Each and every target is now infected.

Archer B comes along, he was fine - but because he didn't see anyone around he didn't bother with gloves, shoots round and eats a sandwich at the end of the round, using his left hand.

Archer B is now infected, goes home, and starts to feel unwell about a week later. In the meantime, he's infected everyone else in his house. :(

The problem is not just being face to face with people, it's also infected people infecting objects (even the very air).


There was a reason that ships used to be in absolute quarantine for 40 days (the literal meaning of quarantine). Anybody who is able to withstand the virus will get it, and survive, and NOT be infectious when they leave, thus the virus spread is halted completely. As a society we are now far too self-centred to even contemplate doing "the right thing for society" if it impinges in anyway on our own freedoms. :(
I hear what you are saying, but I don't agree. Here's why. I'm allowed to go for a walk every day. I go along the Clyde walkway; my usual route takes in about 12 gates. Transpose gates for targets and you are in the same situation. In fact worse as the Clyde walkway sees way more traffic than the field course.

I'm basically going for a walk with a bent sick.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
It's not just the safety aspect of archery, setting up, toilet breaks, keeping distances, it's also the logistics of freeing up the population. People start driving to their club, need petrol, some will breakdown, some will have accidents. Some will see this as a reason to drive anywhere. I think business comes first, then shops, then public open spaces, then outside sports. This could be 6-8 weeks away. Inside sports could well be months away.
I can accept that; I just think that in this situation some sports are riskier than others and there is an argument for introducing the less risky ones sooner.

I'm not agitating for this to happen tomorrow.
 

Stretch

Active member
The government are unlikely to differentiate between clubs with permanent and non-permanent ranges. You’d be lucky if they considered archery at all given the relatively low participation.

So, yes I am sure there are clubs who could maybe manage it. I just don’t see how you can get around a course, where you might be exposed to infection and then get home, wash your hands, disinfect your bow, string, arrows, bag/case, transport etc without taking unnecessary risk. Maybe if there is VERY low participation at your club.

Yeah it’s doable but it won’t be done. So given the risks involved here, ie death, do we really want to encourage that when the data still looks so bad? Not a call I’d make.

Stretch
 

olis

Supporter
Supporter
I work full time in a delivery role. I deal with that by wearing gloves from the beginning of my shift by walking in and picking them out of a (well provided) box to the end where the last thing I do is bin them and wash my hands.
All day with no hand to face contact: easily done with gloves.
I also shoot at field and target clubs. I am not hopeful about target (just about safe when we go indoors. Seriously?), but in the future, when Forestry England tell me I can reasonably wander, I would expect to be shooting field in gloves. June would be good.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
The government are unlikely to differentiate between clubs with permanent and non-permanent ranges. You’d be lucky if they considered archery at all given the relatively low participation...
I suspect archery will be in a catch-all release around the end of summer.
I don't think the government can win this. The economy must be released way before it will be really safe for the public to venture out. In the words of Sir Winston Churchill “This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, this is just perhaps the end of the beginning.”
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
And these are just suggestions for when the lockdown starts to get lifted; I'm sure that the Scottish government won't allow anything that is too risky.
 

Stretch

Active member
The economy must be released way before it will be really safe for the public
I don’t subscribe to risking people’s lives so that rich people can get richer. But I don’t think this is the place for political arguments which this may or may not lead to. So I’ll shut up now.

Stretch
 

Andy.D

New member
It's not just the safety aspect of archery, setting up, toilet breaks, keeping distances, it's also the logistics of freeing up the population. People start driving to their club, need petrol, some will breakdown, some will have accidents. Some will see this as a reason to drive anywhere. I think business comes first, then shops, then public open spaces, then outside sports. This could be 6-8 weeks away. Inside sports could well be months away.
So, going to work, or to the shops do not involve buying petrol, protentially breaking down, or having accidents?
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
So, going to work, or to the shops do not involve buying petrol, protentially breaking down, or having accidents?
Of course they do, but they are unavoidable for most people. I work from home. I go shopping once every two weeks. I have not been to a petrol station for over 8 weeks and still have half a tank of petrol. Just going shooting once a week would triple my chance of getting the virus and loading the NHS.
 

Andy.D

New member
What is the point in letting shops and business' re-open then? if we shouldn't be doing any unnecessary journeys, leave the shops as they are as anything else is not a necessity.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
I'd just like to reiterate in case it wasn't clear that the intention of the suggestions page was that the Scottish government is soliciting suggestions on how to transition out of lockdown gradually when it is safe to do so, and which it may implement if it thinks sensible with the advice of its advisors. It's not looking for suggestions on how to go out and break the lockdown.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
What is the point in letting shops and business' re-open then? if we shouldn't be doing any unnecessary journeys, leave the shops as they are as anything else is not a necessity.
You might be right, but there are still lots of people going out to work, driving to the coast, so perhaps things could be released and government have over reacted, and Sweden have it right, but there are still 4000 new cases a day during full lockdown.
We have had at least one case of covid in our archery club. I'm glad I stopped shooting before lockdown. I have to work until my contract finishes next week, and I have to buy food. I don't have to use other shops and I don't have to shoot.
 

Andy.D

New member
I hope your club member makes a full recovery. The easing of the lockdown will mean more people will go to the shops, which the economy needs and can be done with social distancing as done by the supermarkets and as such think outdoor pursuits, like archery, fishing, golf etc could be done safely. There is no right solution to the current problem, but I'd be happier in a field rather than a shop.
 
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