Scottish Government Lockdown Ideas Page

KidCurry

Well-known member
Well some measures to lighten the lockdown will be announced Sunday and introduced Monday. I guess it's time for archery to start crossing its fingers. I won't be shooting, having studied water droplet movement through the air at university and disagree with gov 2m guidelines, but I guess many will go back to archery if allowed.
I learned just now listening to the BBC that 332 of the 30,000 who have died were people below the age of 30. Should we consider letting young people out? Although I would normally be against anything that discriminates against age or for any reason, these are not normal times. Because their risk is lower from complications and a lot lower risk to the NHS I think I would be happy that our younger archers go back to the field even if I can't.
 
I hear what you are saying, but I don't agree. Here's why. I'm allowed to go for a walk every day. I go along the Clyde walkway; my usual route takes in about 12 gates. Transpose gates for targets and you are in the same situation. In fact worse as the Clyde walkway sees way more traffic than the field course.

I'm basically going for a walk with a bent sick.
err - ok so you see that your walks in the country are risky because you're coming into greater proximity to potential virus 'deposits'.

but you're prepared to do that anyway.

It is for this exact reason that a lot of the parks and open spaces have been shut down, because the more 'random' people who come to use them, the greater is the chance that someone will leave virus deposits for others to pick up.

Just because an archery course is less travelled does not remove the risk. Yes, it may reduce the level somewhat, due to lower traffic, but it will not remove it entirely.

The risk might not be to you, it is to everyone you pass the virus to if you pick it up.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
I hope people will not be too disappointed on Sunday as always the press are trying to set the agenda.
 

Stretch

Active member
No doubt there will be another scandal to keep the bad news off the front page. As the guy who said we needed to lockdown has resigned we presumably don’t need to lockdown anymore :poop:

I guess at least they aren’t pushing whistblower doctors off hospital roofs, so that is something...

Stretch
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
having studied water droplet movement through the air at university and disagree with gov 2m guidelines, but I guess many will go back to archery if allowed.
I learned just now listening to the BBC that 332 of the 30,000 who have died were people below the age of 30. Should we consider letting young people out? Although I would normally be against anything that discriminates against age or for any reason, these are not normal times. Because their risk is lower from complications and a lot lower risk to the NHS I think I would be happy that our younger archers go back to the field even if I can't.
2m? I've stood 20 yards down wind of someone vaping. I know how far water droplets can carry.

If only 332 of the 30,000 deaths have been people under the age of 30 then yes, we should allow young people out, so that they can catch the virus and increase the death toll in the under 30s to even up the statistics
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
2m? I've stood 20 yards down wind of someone vaping. I know how far water droplets can carry.

If only 332 of the 30,000 deaths have been people under the age of 30 then yes, we should allow young people out, so that they can catch the virus and increase the death toll in the under 30s to even up the statistics
People will need to go back in to the community at some point. You can't lock people in forever. If I was 25 and given those odds, I would go out if allowed. Every day 383 people die of heart disease in the UK but we haven't banned fast food outlets. You have to give people the right to choose if you can and educate them to the risk. And besides, around here, when the sun comes out so do the youngsters in groups of 6-9. They are ignoring the lockdown anyway.
2m? I've stood 20 yards down wind of someone vaping. I know how far water droplets can carry.
Yes, I've measured water droplets traveling 10m without any wind assistance at all, in a few minutes without being jet propelled by a cough.
 
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chuffalump

Well-known member
Aye, but accepting the personal risk isn't the point is it? Lockdown aims to reduce the spread of Covid 19. The benefits being a reduced strain on the NHS and reduction in deaths of vulnerable people. Going out because of favourable odds just adds another potential transmission vector.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
Aye, but accepting the personal risk isn't the point is it? ....
No, it's about balancing the risk to the whole population with NHS capacity. With out a doubt, the only safe solution is nobody goes out their front door until, if, we get a vaccine. But that's not possible. We already have a scaled response based on age, and I suspect over the next six months we will see a lightening of restrictions based on an 'at risk' scale. The risk to the NHS is minimal from young people, 99% being over 30yrs.
I think archery is low risk because it is outdoors, but higher than most outdoors sports because the hand/face contact.
What I would like to see is the background demographic for the people catching Covid-19. If it is 95% of people still going to work indoors then you could probably release outdoor sports and activities much earlier.
 
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chuffalump

Well-known member
Not forgetting that the demographic for people catching the virus will change as our behaviour changes.
 

chuffalump

Well-known member
As far as ideas is concerned. If you bring sports back, do so only in controlled locations with some documented safety procedures and only the most solitary sports first. Any new Covid cases, check for links to these sports. Slam the door shut at the first sign of a link.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
I think archery is low risk because it is outdoors, but higher than most outdoors sports because the hand/face contact.
I would suggest that the majority of popular outdoor sports are more at risk. Either because players come into physical contact (rugby, football), or multiple players handle the same equipment (tennis, cricket), or use a common changing rooms; not to mention the fact that these sports want to resume on a professional level because they require money from spectators to be profitable, which in turn brings people together, even if they're watching these sports on tvs because they actual venues are closed doors.

Whereas the majority of archers travel to venues by themselves, or with members of the same household, only need to handle their own equipment, and if it can be decided before registration who is going to be scoring, even the scorecard need only be handled by one (or two in the case of double scoring) person.

Saying all that, I don't think there's any need for us to rush back, if the outdoor tournaments restart this side of July I'll be surprised.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
Well Scotland's hope are dashed NS has locked you all down for a further 3 weeks....

When you drill down it is a nightmare for clubs even more so if you do not have a permanent field with targets already set out at distances and are not moved. The competition scene risk assessment is even more complicated, the biggest issue is not transferring the virus by touch - just pulling arrows and touching the target face are two hurdles. Before we get on to social distancing making sure people stand 2m apart when changing details how would that work - one way lanes and half the targets on the field. Just walking to the targets what about lost arrows the list goes on.....
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
Well Scotland's hope are dashed NS has locked you all down for a further 3 weeks....
And the news websites are all backpedalling on what Boris is going to announce.

Well, if the advice to isolate stands then obviously I'll comply.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
The competition scene risk assessment is even more complicated...
I doubt I will be doing any more comps until the risk is almost zero or a vaccine comes along. If that means next year so be it :( But my feeling is the government want people back to work and will reduce distancing with face masks, maybe in a couple of weeks.

... or multiple players handle the same equipment (tennis, cricket),
Yehhh... you have a point.
Saying all that, I don't think there's any need for us to rush back, if the outdoor tournaments restart this side of July I'll be surprised.
It's not the rushing back so much as last years training was for this years comps, and this years training is for next years comps. Losing this years training will really hit my comps for next year. And this years comps would determine this years training. So I suspect this will hit two years of my archery.
 
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D

Deleted member 946

Guest
"until the risk is almost zero or a vaccine comes along. If that means next year so be it"

And what if (when?) another virus or a variation of this one emerges then that can't be covered by the vaccine being developed now? If I were to follow your line of reasoning, it would likely mean the rest of my life is spent in lockdown and I really, really can't cope with that thought.
 

Stretch

Active member
That depends on frequency of viral mutations happening in such a way as to render normal anti-viral treatments useless. That’s pretty rare, but as CV-19 shows, not unheard of. That is the issue, CV-19 does extraordinary levels of damage when replicating and some treatments that *should* work, make it worse.

Unfortunately many countries did not react to the discovery of the virus. Lots of tales - France in December; a US Coroner being told they were wrong; the Chinese doctor being told to shut up... etc. These suppressive behaviours mean that more people get sick, more people die and treatments and vaccinations are delayed. And when China finally shouted, nobody listened.

So if you don’t want doomsday outcomes the only realistic path you have is to vote for a government that believes in sharing information, working with other countries and taking action on scientific advice without spin from snake-oil salesmen. Just look at Chinese Taipei if you don’t think that works.

Unless of course you think it is OK for people to just die if they are old, vulnerable or choose jobs where exposure to high viral loads. Because that is the choice you make coming out of lockdown too early with a virus like this. A government whose reason for being is keeping rich people rich is an extremely dangerous prospect. And don’t fall for the “freedom” garbage - they’re trying to play you - it’s all about money.

Stretch
 
D

Deleted member 946

Guest
So if you don’t want doomsday outcomes the only realistic path you have is to vote for a government that believes in sharing information, working with other countries and taking action on scientific advice without spin from snake-oil salesmen.
And where are we going to find one of those and get it in place before I die?
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Our Scottish brethren might be less than a decade away from being able to make their own choice... :LOL: especially if in five years time the electorate forget the atrocious job the current government has done and give them another go...
 
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