short range practice.

geoffretired

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With the lock down in place it seems there are a few more archers starting to shoot at close range, indoors.
I feel it is important to know the likely effects of shooting this way. Newer archers may be surprised by some of these.
I need to say from the start that I feel it is a good thing to do.
I also think it needs to be done " in context".
It is quite tempting to print off scaled down versions of normal target faces, and shoot at those. It does seem logical.
To put things in context; there are quite a lot of archers who do not do well when they shoot indoors. It almost seems as if it is a different activity. Their form doesn't change that much; if we observe only their posture. The archer may not notice the other changes, such as the stiffness in the follow through; and sometimes the delay in the release, or a struggle with the clicker.
If shooting 20y can have an effect that is visible to an observer, then shooting at 5y or even 10y could be even more obvious.
It seems to me that the short range adds to the feeling that we should get really tight groups and our expectations are already higher than is good for a relaxed shot process to happen. Add to that; the arrow lands as soon at it is released and the "twang" is almost part of the "click" of a clicker. There is no arrow flight time to maintain our posture through.
I feel it would be better to start shooting at very close range, without a target face and without a sight. Just make some good shots. At such close range the scores aren't of much value. Learning how to feel the relaxation is worth experiencing.Knowing that you maintained your posture until some time after the shot has been made, is of value. Knowing how you managed to do that is perhaps even more valuable.
Get used to shooting at close range without any expectations. Then learn how things feel when you just shoot well executed shots. Learn to tell the difference and how to avoid the duds.
You will see, without a sight, that you are going to hit the boss; your body posture will be directing the arrows towards the boss, and well away from its edges.
 

Stretch

Well-known member
I shot one of my best ever FITA scores having shot nothing but 8m and a lot of rigid formaster for 2 weeks (and the 90m was solid). And I followed it with an 1140 York the next day.

Short distance form work means you can stop fixating on score and refocus on feel. Bloody marvellous.

Shooting at tiny targets is all very well... at short distance if you aim in the same place the arrow goes in the same place but if you are tensing up because your expectations are higher it isn’t going to help. You’ll hit your little targets but when you get to distance you’ll be all over the shop.

I always aim at something - otherwise you end up with broken arrows but for true blank boss I just aim at a different spot. Once the shot feels right I’ll put up something to hit and then go back and forward. Focus needs to be on execution (actually that is always true...)

2p

Stretch
 

geoffretired

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Supporter
Hi Stretch I think we are agreeing on this one.
It's the distance that can trick us into getting the wrong focus. If we learn the right things at short distances( when we can relax a bit) and feel what we are doing, the feelings can be re captured when we extend the range, a bit later on.
It is really a matter of not just trying to shoot a short distance; as if it is longer but using a smaller target face. It's about deciding first, how we will use the short distance to our advantage.
I see quite a few archers who practise regularly; and practise the same form that gives them their poor results. Practice needs to be a bit different from the routine; a learning situation. Learning something better.
 

olis

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Supporter
Since the lock-down I have started shooting at home for the first time. This is limited to about 3m, but it is really helping me improve my archery because I am not treating it as scaled down target practice but as whole-shot form practice. i.e. the boss is only there to catch the arrow. The target is a row of 12 circles drawn around a 2p about 2 inches apart and every shot I shuffle back 2 inches to keep the angle. Previous to this I had an inkling that I was shooting too many scores rather than learning to shoot better, but now that it's all I do the improvement over the last couple of weeks is very obvious to me.
Also because the arrow flight is so short it has no time to stabilise which means that a poorer shot will be slightly angled in the boss as well as away from the aiming point.
There is genuine satisfaction in seeing a row of (near) identical shots after a 12 arrow end.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
An archer who shall remain nameless, unless you know them on facebook, reports having found a soft spot in their brand new target bag whilst shooting along their landing, resulting in a new arrow sized hole in the bedroom door. I'm sure they're not the first and probably wont be the last
 

geoffretired

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Supporter
Many years ago in my garage I missed the boss and reached the bricks in the end wall. The arrow hit a bottle on a shelf.Obviously, it created a lot of little bits, but the funny part was that the neck and bottle top were neatly resting inside what was left of the base.
 

Corax67

Well-known member
I am loving shooting in my garden, getting in so much more practice, albeit with a 30# flatbow rather than my 55# longbow. The fluidity of my shot cycle has increased markedly which feels really great.

My neighbours are also now fascinated by archery and several want to come to club for a ‘have-a-go’ once normal service resumes.

My son now wants to shoot every day (4yrs old) because he sees daddy shoot but cannot come to club with me as we have an 8yr old minimum limit - at this rate by the time he 8 he will be outshooting me !



Karl
 
D

Deleted member 7654

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My son and I have been shooting at a 2D rabbit at 10 yards (into the garage). We score NFAS big game, but shoot all 3 arrows, so there is still a premium on hitting with the first arrow (e.g first arrow kill=20 but 3rd arrow kill is only 8).
It's tricky for him as he's in a wheelchair, but he's actually scored the highest 3 arrow tally (kill kill wound), but sometimes he blanks. I'm more consistent with a much better first shot hit rate. recording the individual arrow scores means we can plot progress and spend many happy hours analysing the hell out of the data.
We generally have 3 ends of 3 arrows per session... keep us out of mischief.
Del
PS we are both shooting the same bow "twister" 40# (maybe 45#... I've lost track of it!) Yew primitive.
 

geoffretired

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Supporter
The fluidity of my shot cycle has increased markedly which feels really great
I think this is an important thing to gain, by doing short range shooting with a purpose.The purpose being; to work on an aspect of the shot that needs to be improved.Sometimes the fluidity arrives as if by magic, but it is usually down to being more relaxed and more confident( or less afraid to make a mistake.)I have been going through a really long bad patch for the last five or six years. Even shooting at very close range was doing me no good apart from keeping the muscles going.
By coincidence, a friend came to show me the nocking point on her compound and I was able to explain that it was OK.
As it seemed like a wasted journey, I asked her to watch me shooting a couple of shots, which she did.(She shot in the England team when Roy Matthews was no 1.)
After my first shot she said. " Why are you shooting like a beginner?"
I said I had no confidence in my shooting as I get hung up just before the release every time.
"NO! Stop there!"
"You have been shooting for years, you love shooting, get on with it then!!!"
Apart from saying my bow hand looked tense, I was told to just get on with the shot... no ifs or buts.
After so many years of rubbish; the fluidity came back and the hang up disappeared.
There was no hard work involved; just a different mind set. All the fussy little bits I had been adding into my thinking and checking, were just ignored. The shot process became almost a simple, automatic drawing of the string and off it went!
With an empty mind, I just enjoyed each shot.
 

jerryRTD

Well-known member
You do get caught up in the fussy little bits Geoff. A very good archer told me a long time ago 'There is no difference between shooting at long range and short range.;' He also told me that 99% of problems occur behind the nocking point
 

geoffretired

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Supporter
Yes, Jerry, you are right.
I think I shoot on my own too much; or perhaps it is that I shoot with others too rarely.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

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Interesting thread...
My son was struggling to get any consistency and I could see his anchor point was way out to the side... the problem being, he has to sit slightly leaning back in his wheelchair and he has trouble with the string hitting the wheel of the chair. Anyhow I showed him a chapter in the Traditional Bowyers Bible entitled "Lessons From Target Archery" which made him more open to my suggestions.
Eventually we found that if he leans toward the target a little he could clear the wheel and get a good repeatable anchor. He had two "ends" of 3 arrows, first end all in line vertically, second end, all in line horizontally. Hmmm...
I took down the rabbit 2D which revealed a 5d piece sized piece of white tape (for a Facebook challenge). That should give a better focus.
His next end of three arrows tightened up a bit.
Then first arrow of the next he hit it 😲 ... time to quit:)
Del
 

geoffretired

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Supporter
Hi Del,
Being close to a target is not a bad thing every time, or for everyone.
My post was really just a reminder that short range shooting should be done with a clear purpose in mind. It isn't just a way to shoot for scores on scaled down faces. That in itself isn't a bad thing, it is what it can lead to that is better known in advance.
 

JohnK

Well-known member
Geoff and Stretch are talking a huge amount of sense, as ever :)

I'm shooting short range into - and in - my garage. Switching between shooting blank boss and then at the WA lockdown targets is teaching me a huge amount about how I have a tendency to back off on my alignment when aiming, even at only a few metres.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Hi Del,
Being close to a target is not a bad thing every time, or for everyone.
My post was really just a reminder that short range shooting should be done with a clear purpose in mind. It isn't just a way to shoot for scores on scaled down faces. That in itself isn't a bad thing, it is what it can lead to that is better known in advance.
Never said it was... I was just saying this has all been useful.
My son rarely shoots, but this has given us both something to do and this thread prompted me to think about how to help his form and it's actually helped him enjoy it more.
It's all about having a bit of fun... hitting the target does help!
Del
PS... Anyone fance the 5p challenge? mark a spot size of 5p try to hit it from 10 yards :)
 

geoffretired

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Supporter
Hi Del,
Your posts on this thread have been helping to keep things in context. I started the thread because I read about some close range , small scaled target faces, for shooting at as if it was a normal competition or round.
I think it is great if archers can shoot indoors( or outdoors) at close range, and it can bring many benefits.
One aspect to consider is the chances that the archer may over aim and lose the form they developed outdoors.
It is good that you are adding to the context with posts about keeping it fun.
I think there is fun to be had by making well executed shots; just for their own sake. The equivalent of shooting up a field as we did as kids. There is a freedom in the way kids shoot, that can easily get lost. I know I have suffered from that.
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
Ash's last 2 videos on training close range - 31st and 1 April are 30 min well spent.

 

geoffretired

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Johnk, I think what you said is very useful.
Shooting for one purpose followed by shooting for a different purpose soon after, seems to add contrast to what we are doing and each feeds off the other.
I remember Murray on here, many years ago, mentioning trying to shoot at different speeds in short sessions. Each one would highlight things that could go undetected if we try to stick to one single routine.
It's a bit like shooting with a clicker then without.
 

Kernowlad

Supporter
Supporter
My first attempts at short range (VERY short range) at an NFAS tournament were a comedy disaster.
So I did loads at home and realised that with sights you need to plot a graph; less than a certain range and the sight markings act like they are at a long distance. Get to 2m and your sight markings will be similar to 60m! I quite like graphs so found it quite satisfying.

And I love the powerful thunk of a 300+ FPS arrived hitting at close range!
 

English Bowman

Well-known member
PS... Anyone fance the 5p challenge? mark a spot size of 5p try to hit it from 10 yards :)
That's what we do at the club, we have 3 small 10 yard ranges at the Fort (Plus one 30 yard one) indoors, so as we can get 3 bosses in each of the short ranges, and only one at the longer one, most of our indoor shooting tends to be at 10 yards, and I use the smallest target I can. So if I had access to 10 yards a boss and my bow I'd take you on at that one!
 
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