Should all club activities be cancelled?

chuffalump

Well-known member
Trouble with risk assessing continuous shooting is that the insurance company are under no obligation to give a poop. If THEY think you haven't done everything reasonable and since it's not possible to be entirely sure you've covered all eventualities....

One point that I've considered is that many clubs rent fields etc. Not only do you have to account for your own insurance liabilities, how is your landlord going to react if they think you are on their land shooting uninsured?
 

LAC Mark

Member
Full quote from AGB's email yesterday:

Advice regarding insurance:



Following a number of enquiries regarding insurance, we have received the following guidance from our insurers Howdens:

“At the present time we can only advise you and your clubs to follow the government advice. Within any insurance policy there is a reasonable precautions condition and if the club are deliberately ignoring advice or acting recklessly this may impact on the liability indemnity being available.

All clubs should record their decisions and reasons to proceed or not with their activities, and ensure that risk assessment and risk management is considered through their process.

The health and wellbeing of everyone being of primary importance as per the governments guidance.”



Archery GB advises that all archery in the UK is postponed for the foreseeable future, in order to reduce all non-essential contact with others. Our priority is the health and safety of our members, participants, volunteers and staff.



If clubs believe they can operate within the government guidelines and ensure no social contact takes place and all social distancing measures and government hygiene measures are in place. They need to make sure they record their decisions and reasons to proceed or not with their activities, and ensure that risk assessment and risk management is considered through their process. We cannot stress strongly enough that the decision to proceed against government advice and our guidance is a risk taken by the club, continuing to shoot could invalidate your insurance and any claims made will be made to the insurers and it is their decision not Archery GB’s.



We advise you to postpone all archery activity with immediate effect.
So it seems the insurance hasn't been cancelled as such, but it'll be really hard to make a water tight claim if shooting while AGB have advised not to.

It's a like towing a 2 ton caravan behind a 1.5 ton car, the car maybe able to tow 2 ton legally, but the caravan club and others do not recommend towing more than 85% of the cars weight (85% of 1.5t is 1.275t), this can be increased to 100% for experienced towers.
However, although it's not illegal to tow the 2t caravan, no insurance company will pay out if you have an accident as it's against recommendations.

This is exactly where we stand at the moment.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how often claims are made against AGB insurance...?? Asking as I've had car insurance for +20 years but never had to make a claim*...

* - admittedly, the one time I was (car** stolen off drive with camping gear inside) they did say that they'd probably be raising my premiums by more than I'd be claiming... bloodsucking bastards...
** - old, non-working*** car worth scrap before anyone wonders
*** - yes, they stole a non-working car that wouldn't tick over and needed petrol...
 

Whitehart

Well-known member
It is not just social distancing that is the issue it is also about not making unnecessary journeys and having the population moving around from one area to another. It is clear that many don't get it, so soon our so called liberties will be taken away from us as we cannot be trusted to do it voluntarily and the country will be shut down.

It was embarrassing to see those British holiday makers in Spain Benidorm defying the ban yesterday, the Spanish Police looked so perplexed and frustrated at such stupidity and lack of respect for local laws.
 

dvd8n

Supporter
Supporter
Whilst I have no intention of doing any indoor archery for the foreseeable future, and I will obey the instructions from AGB because it seems the right thing to do, I am finding this ****** annoying.

This is basically the insurance company saying that they have been handed an excuse not to pay any claims for the next few months and that they have every intention of using that excuse if the need arises.

It's not like having coronavirus in the population somehow makes archery any more inherently risky, any more than it being the cold or flu season does.

And it's not like anyone can sue for catching the virus; with an incubation period of 5-10 days nobody can really know how they caught it.
 

ben tarrow

Well-known member
Indeed.
If I want to go with a friend to our field (we have 24/7 access) and shoot some arrows, how is that any different to when I did it last year?
 

T101

Active member
The question I would like answered from AGB is what are the precautions they are using for the Olympic squad, who are still shooting, which they think keep them within government and/or insurance guidelines? Plus why the double standard.

I get the whole limiting journeys/social interaction, but at the same time they say its ok to go for a walk etc, just be sensible. If your club field is anything like ours you will see less people there than if on a walk or going food shopping. Easy to maintain safe protocols even with other archers on a big field. Even before the virus I could shoot and not see anyone for hours. Anyone I did see well over 2 meters away.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
It is not just social distancing that is the issue it is also about not making unnecessary journeys...
Absolutely. I just don't understand people. It is nothing to do with insurance. Why do they still need to go shooting? I was planning to distance my wife and myself for 12 weeks but I can't. I have had three neighbors ask me to get shopping for them because they are in their eighties and can't order any food. I tried online but there is no delivery available out to three weeks and no bookable slots even then. How can I tell them no? How will they eat? I'm literally scared to go shopping now! Why are people so selfish?
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Prior to the AGB statement I’d been having virtual meetings with our committee about shooting. As we have a vast outdoor site and enough equipment to put up 20+ targets, enough for one per archer, then in theory it would have been possible to conform with social distancing and still shoot.

We’ve now taken the decision, looking primarily at the insurance issue, to advise all of our members that archery is suspended indefinitely.

We are able to enforce this easily since there are only 5 key holders and we’ve all agreed to not open up other than periodic site checks.

Thankfully there will be no financial implication for us as a club since we do not pay site rent but I feel for those clubs who will suffer.

Today’s announcement this could last a year is a big shock and will have dramatic repercussions for archery manufacturers and retailers (as well as the very one else) and how our sport continues.

Karl
 

LionOfNarnia

Supporter
Supporter
My club has officially cancelled the remainder of the indoor sessions, but says it hopes to commence outdoor shooting on 10th April, with the approval of DNAA.

Whether I participate depends on both government instruction & 'how well my home range project works out'.

TBH the chance to save nearly £80 a month on petrol will be very tempting!
 

Emmadragon

Supporter
Supporter
I'd be tempted by the chance to save petrol money, especially that much.
We had a good measure over the weekend, and can set up a 10m (or yard) target, with our back fence and a considerable amount of shrubbery as a backstop behind. No risk to anyone else, since the field behind our garden isn't much used except by the farmer, and we can always tell when he's in there with his tractor.
So I think, with some appropriately sized target faces to simulate distances, we'll be good.
Our club has come out very firmly as closed, indoor and out, and my goodness! you'd think it was the end of the world. The amount of whinging that's going on on Facebook about it is extraordinary.
 

LionOfNarnia

Supporter
Supporter
I'm using www.szetech.co.uk/targetmaker to produce the simulated distance faces. Already printed a couple of 70m/122cm for 8yds to shoot indoors, and 20yds for when my range is approved. The former is 6-zone to fit on a sheet of A4.

There's a Facebook group started by World Archery - Beat the Outbreak Online Archery League - which is quite lively already. Recorded shooting is starting this week.

I won't comment on the moronically selfish behaviour of 'some' people - by no means just archers - who probably deserve to drown in their own mucus but will prolly survive whilst killing innocents :mad:

Oops, I just did!
 

Corax67

Well-known member
Rearranged the garage yesterday afternoon, installed a spare small layered foam boss borrowed from club stores and strung up my 30# flatbow for the first time in over a year.

Shooting 10yds using A3 sheets with 6 x 1” circles on them (printed in work) as they would appear on a dice, one arrow per spot. Measured up the garden and can comfortably shoot 20yds using garage back wall as a backstop too - although I can do 30yds house to back fence but not taking the chance of a miss even though it’s a neighbours pine end wall that would get the arrow contact.

Shooting purely to maintain muscle memory as my employer is a feed producer & as such we have to stay open and manhandling hundreds of 20 & 25 kilo sacks all day long keeps me pretty much as muscle toned as I need to be.

My only concern is if I miss I will definitely kill an arrow against the concrete wall and getting hold of components seems to be a little tricky at the moment, understandably, but the joy of shooting again was immense and worth the effort.



Karl
 

LionOfNarnia

Supporter
Supporter
I think I've found an even 'better' online league than the WA one - Apparently it started as BareBow but they've expanded to cover all genres. Seems to be backed by R-Core (grips).

Target Maker
Scores Database

Hugh confirmed that my boss package was shipped out today, but no tracking link so I'm guessing/hoping Wednesday delivery.
 

little-else

Supporter
Supporter
our landlord has curtailed all activity on the land so the few members who were keen on shhoting in pairs are now in the same boat as everyone else.
The insureres saying they would limit liability in some circumstances ignores the law on this but no doubt they want to do their best to avoid paying out on risks they havent forseen.
 

AJBrady

New member
Whilst I have no intention of doing any indoor archery for the foreseeable future, and I will obey the instructions from AGB because it seems the right thing to do, I am finding this ****** annoying.

This is basically the insurance company saying that they have been handed an excuse not to pay any claims for the next few months and that they have every intention of using that excuse if the need arises.
To the best of my knowledge Howdens are the Brokers to AGB and not the insurers, so theyare erring on the side of caution in giving that advice. The policy covers (amongst other things) AGB's (and its members') Legal Liability for injury or damage to third parties or their property. It would be very difficult for insurers to avoid paying such a claim. Not having seen the policy wording I cannot comment in any greater detail.
 
Top