Sight markings

Kernowlad

Member
First tournament being shot next weekend; I keep my sight marking saved on my phone; is it okay to refer to a mobile when shooting?
I can?t remember them all!
 


Del the Cat

Well-known member
Yeah, if you really want to hold up the group behind you while you mess about...
Get a grip.. it's supposed to be fun.
I thought you'd moved from target to escape some of that nonsense...?
<shakes head in despair>
Del
 


Timid Toad

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Print a sight tape and stick it to your sight track. Not rocket science. Leave your phone in the car. People with phones on a field course are really annoying.
 


Geophys

Member
Print a sight tape and stick it to your sight track. Not rocket science. Leave your phone in the car. People with phones on a field course are really annoying.
Absolutely, put a tape on your bow graduated in 5m steps. I followed a group of four compounds on a field course recently, they shot nearly as quickly as my four tradbow group because they all had their sight tapes.
 


Kernowlad

Member
Yeah, if you really want to hold up the group behind you while you mess about...
Get a grip.. it's supposed to be fun.
I thought you'd moved from target to escape some of that nonsense...?
<shakes head in despair>
Del
Errrmm, did you get out of the wrong side of bed or something? It was a simple question and I never hold up the group; quite the opposite.

Luckily there are some rather less grumpy replies. Thanks guys; TBH I?ll probably remember them all anyway, having thought about it but I?ll print out a little sheet just in case.

We?ve both been practising in the garden after a surf together; all good.
 


Mistake

New member
Ironman
Not sure about 3D, but in WA Field, you can't take electronic devices like phones onto the Unmarked course
 


osprey

Member
First tournament being shot next weekend; I keep my sight marking saved on my phone; is it okay to refer to a mobile when shooting?
I can?t remember them all!
Hi Kernowlad

I'm new to field archery too so I did a bit of searching and here's what I found.


For Target Archery (quote from Archery GB rules Version 2019-03-25
Version of 2019-04-01
11.3.2. Use of any electronic voice communication device, headsets or noise reduction devices in front of the waiting line.
Electronic devices used for monitoring physiological data, like wrist worn fitness trackers, smartwatches and heart rate chests band
are permitted and data is allowed to be communicated electronically to the paired electronic device, as long as the
monitoring device on the athlete is not visually intrusive (e.g. no eye-tracking devices, no head-mounted EEG devices etc.).
Mobile devices such as mobile phones are permitted in front of the waiting line for running software that simply allows the athlete
to plot arrow impacts on the target as one would on printed paper
used for the same purpose is permitted. No software that aids in
bow sight adjustments may be used anywhere on the archery field (which includes any space either in front of or behind the
shooting line up to the spectator area).


This is a very new rule change which if I understand correctly allows mobile devices to be used to score, but not as a phone or archery aid.

It doesn't look as though Field has updated this rule in line with target yet.


From Book 4 Version 2019-03-25
22.6. Accessories for all divisions
For athletes of all divisions the following equipment is not permitted:
22.6.1. Any electronic or electrical device that can be attached to the athlete's equipment.
22.6.2. Any electronic communication device (including mobile phones), headsets or noise reduction devices at any time on the course.
22.6.3. Any type of range finders or any other means of estimating distances or angles not covered by the current rules regarding athletes
equipment, or any written memoranda or electronic storage device for storing memoranda. An athlete may carry with him a copy
of the World Archery Rules or any part thereof.
22.6.4. Any part of an athlete?s equipment that has been added or modified to serve the purpose of estimating distances or angles, nor
may any regular piece of equipment be used explicitly for that purpose.


So it doesn't look as if archers can use a mobile device at all in field. These rules do get updated so worth keeping an eye out for future changes.


Good question by the way, I learned something.
Regards
Osprey
 


Kernowlad

Member
Thanks!
Well we did the tournament and it was brilliant fun. I wrote the sight markings I had on a piece of paper and drew a graph using a ?line of best fit? for distances i didn?t have. The compound pegs were definitely placed awkwardly; a long way on most targets but way closer on two targets (less than 5 yards!) and I was terrible on these but generally got on prey well. I need more definitive sight markings (quite a lot of slight guesswork was involved) and must work on ultra short range but generally happy.

My son did very well indeed.

A long but very enjoyable day, I think we?ll do the tournament next week too.

So friendly and laid back compared to target archery too.
 


KidCurry

Well-known member
Well we did the tournament and it was brilliant fun. ... My son did very well indeed.
That's really great. It's a great area of archery.

So friendly and laid back compared to target archery too.
I'm not sure where this anti target feeling comes from, although from your previous posts you have had poor experiences, but to put a balance on things, in 30 years of shooting target I struggle to remember any poor experiences. Although I guess I could be in a clique and don't know it :sorry:
 


Kernowlad

Member
KidCurry; I probably shouldn?t have compared them.
A few poor experiences but as you say, I think it?s pretty rare. There were good points too!
 


Kernowlad

Member
Been adding to my sight markings graph; amazing how quickly it rises back ?up? at short range. From 10-25 yards the graph is almost flat (distance vs sight mark number) then rises fairly uniformly until max range for XX75s but the ACGs continue to about 80 then that also gets wobbly.

I love a bit of maths geekery!
 


osprey

Member
A really weird thing happens to the sight numbers when you shoot less than about 12m. The numbers start going back up, so for example for my bow to hit at 5m I have to set the sight to the same mark as I would shoot a 30m target. I assume this is something to do with the fact that the arrow is located several inches below the sight.
 


Kernowlad

Member
A really weird thing happens to the sight numbers when you shoot less than about 12m. The numbers start going back up, so for example for my bow to hit at 5m I have to set the sight to the same mark as I would shoot a 30m target. I assume this is something to do with the fact that the arrow is located several inches below the sight.
Yep there's a sight/eyeline convergence at close range which I only found about at a field archery tournament where I was pretty decent over 15 yards, terrible at the really close range stuff!
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
It's really to do with the arrow being several inches below the aiming eye. If the sight is set exactly the same distance above the arrow, as the eye is above the nock , the arrow sets off parallel to the line of sight. At any distance, the sight will need to be lower than that in order for the arrow to make up the deficit. Over a short distance the arrow needs to be elevated quite a lot in order to close the gap in such a short distance, hence the lower than expected sight mark. For longer distances, such as the outdoor ones, the arrow is elevated enough to rise above the line of sight and drop back down at the same level.
I am not just nit picking,I say that because the line of sight, is the one feature of the aiming system that stays in place at all distances; so it's a good starting point for working out why things happen as they do.
 


4d4m

Member
It's really to do with the arrow being several inches below the aiming eye. If the sight is set exactly the same distance above the arrow, as the eye is above the nock , the arrow sets off parallel to the line of sight. At any distance, the sight will need to be lower than that in order for the arrow to make up the deficit. Over a short distance the arrow needs to be elevated quite a lot in order to close the gap in such a short distance, hence the lower than expected sight mark. For longer distances, such as the outdoor ones, the arrow is elevated enough to rise above the line of sight and drop back down at the same level.
I am not just nit picking,I say that because the line of sight, is the one feature of the aiming system that stays in place at all distances; so it's a good starting point for working out why things happen as they do.
You're both describing the same thing. The "line of sight" is determined by the positions of both the eye and the sight pin. Each of those things marks a point in space, and the straight line that joins both is the sight line. The sight marks are determined by the angle of the line of sight relative to the "arc" of trajectory.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Yes, we are all talking about the same thing in total as it were. I am just talking about it in a slightly different way.
Line of sight, from my point of view( heehee) is determined not by the sight pin and the eye; rather by the eye and it's view to the target. I can draw that line on any sketch or scale drawing of the archer/bow/ target combination.No sight required, so can be used by barebow archers when explaining similar situations.
If we put a sight into this "equation" it has to be put on the existing line of sight( eye line to target.)
Splitting hairs? Yes, I know I am. It just seems to me that it is easier to explain when starting with that eye line to target. It can help explain where gaps are for gap shooters, and why the gap changes size with change of distance.
I could say that sight marks are determined by the angle of the line of trajectory relative to the line of sight. The line of sight is always from eye to target, so I put that as the line other things are compared with.
In a way I am saying that a vertical building is at 90 deg to a level. Rather than building a structure then looking to see if 90 deg to the building, is actually level or horizontal.
I am not saying that the sight marks will be any different which ever way you think it through, but the understanding can be clearer.
 


bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
it might be worth noting that for World Archery field/3D you can have a sight tape or a set of written sight marks, but not both.
 


geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Bimble, that's interesting.
Can I clarify that sight tape, is a tape with marks on and the marks are for specific distances? Written sight marks would be a sheet or booklet with numbers on for specific distances... and the numbers refer to a scale on the sight?
If they are both correct, I am trying to think of a reason for not being allowed both.
 


bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
Bimble, that's interesting.
Can I clarify that sight tape, is a tape with marks on and the marks are for specific distances? Written sight marks would be a sheet or booklet with numbers on for specific distances... and the numbers refer to a scale on the sight?
If they are both correct, I am trying to think of a reason for not being allowed both.
That's right. Because you're only allowed one set of marks, it's easier to say to archers chose one or the other, rather than having to check that the sight tape matches the written marks. Especially if someone was to have a sight tape for the flat, but written marks for... 15 degree downslope (you're not allowed your cut charts in WA)
 


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