Target face lines

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
This is just something that irritates me. Why is there no line between the black and blue rings? I understand why there isn't between the white and black ring, because the line in effect is drawn within the higher scoring areas, but when it comes to the black and blue area wouldn't it make sense to have a white line to separate them?

More interestingly if you to go Manchester Museum there is an old target with a white dividing line between these rings. So why was it taken out?
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
because the lines are in the higher scoring zone... so any black line between the blue and the black should be worth 5, though they wouldn't be discernible from the 4. And, before you ask, why do they not therefore use a white line as the do inside the back? Because it's easier not to have to have a fine line of unprinted area than it is to do so.
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
because the lines are in the higher scoring zone... so any black line between the blue and the black should be worth 5, though they wouldn't be discernible from the 4. And, before you ask, why do they not therefore use a white line as the do inside the back? Because it's easier not to have to have a fine line of unprinted area than it is to do so.
Yes I'm aware the black lines are in the higher scoring zone. In fact I said that in the original post, as there would be no point having one between the white and black zones.

Between the black and blue zone, though it would be an idea to have a white line. If you're printing them it's no more trouble putting in a white ring. In fact if you re-read my original post you'll notice I've pointed out an old target in Manchester museum with a white ring between the black and blue area. So it's been done before.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
yeah, I spotted that after I hit post :ashamed: though my point that it's still easier not to try to leave a line than it is to do so still stands. I can remember talking to one of our senior judges who was saying that he's still amazed at the number of people trying to claim a line cutter because they're assuming that there is a black line and that "they can see it", whereas, what they're actually seeing is the bleed where the printers don't need to be as precise with the outside of the blue because it's going to be printed over with black.

How old a target are we talking about?? Are we still talking about when they were hand-painting them? Or are we talking about when they might be adding lines afterwards to tidy up the boundaries between the scoring zones?? And do we know it's a standard face that was used everywhere (in the way we know that faces these days are pretty much the same world wide*), or could it have been just the way the people who made it made theirs??

* - within the various tolerances allowed
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
yeah, I spotted that after I hit post :ashamed: though my point that it's still easier not to try to leave a line than it is to do so still stands. I can remember talking to one of our senior judges who was saying that he's still amazed at the number of people trying to claim a line cutter because they're assuming that there is a black line and that "they can see it", whereas, what they're actually seeing is the bleed where the printers don't need to be as precise with the outside of the blue because it's going to be printed over with black.

How old a target are we talking about?? Are we still talking about when they were hand-painting them? Or are we talking about when they might be adding lines afterwards to tidy up the boundaries between the scoring zones?? And do we know it's a standard face that was used everywhere (in the way we know that faces these days are pretty much the same world wide*), or could it have been just the way the people who made it made theirs??

* - within the various tolerances allowed
Off hand I can't recall, I don't think it's painted as it does look printed. It's signed and there is a recurve bow in the case with it (don't ask me what make recurve), and I think there might be a trophy with it too. So as it's signed I would presume it's a recognised target face same reason for the trophy.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
This one perchance??



Those lines look a lot thicker than what they are allowed these days, which suggests at some point things were tidied up (or probably introduced), and that was when that extra white line was removed.
 

Score the Green

Supporter
Supporter
There is no problem with printing a white line as there is one separating the three and four zones, so maybe a cost factor
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
Yeah that is the one, and whoops its a compound. Shows how long ago I last saw it. The lines maybe thicker, but wouldn't that show improvement on the printing. I still think there should be a dividing line, otherwise what is the point of having any lines? If it doesn't matter for the black and blue then why for the blue and red, or red and gold?
I know it's probably not much of a problem for the better archers or those using modern bows, but for the average/traditionalist archers could make a difference.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no problem with printing a white line as there is one separating the three and four zones, so maybe a cost factor
But wouldn't missing out some ink save money, ok not much but for the thousands of targets printed it'd soon add up.
 

little-else

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
have you measured the thickness of the outer blue to see if it is thicker to take this into account? I will do so on wednesday and report back.
 

Stash

New member
I'm wondering why anyone would care?

You shouldn't be shooting arrows way out in the black or blue anyways. And if you are, then a linecutter or two isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to anybody.

:D
 

Raven's_Eye

Active member
Ironman
I'm wondering why anyone would care?

You shouldn't be shooting arrows way out in the black or blue anyways. And if you are, then a linecutter or two isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to anybody.

:D
100 yds with a longbow I'm happy to hit the target with a few arrows an end.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
make things clearer?? If it's touching the blue it's in, if it's not it's out... that's not clear enough?!?
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
because it's easier to see the difference between black and another colour than it is between two colours... and can be used to "hide" what might not be a perfect join between the colour boundaries. I also imagine it makes it easier if someone is colour blind.
 

bimble

Well-known member
Supporter
Fonz Awardee
Ironman
AIUK Saviour
by having to print the outside of the blue and inside of the black perfectly to form a white line... as opposed to just printing the inside of the black perfectly and not worrying if the blue drifts out a bit...??
 

Phil Reay

New member
make things clearer?? If it's touching the blue it's in, if it's not it's out... that's not clear enough?!?
I've known judges hesitate because it is very difficult to make the distinction when using black arrows which carbons are.
 

little-else

Supporter
Supporter
AIUK Saviour
measured the 5 ring and the blue printed part is slightly larger to accommodate the line thickness equivalent. so it is a blue ring with a blue line.
 
Top