[RECURVE] W&W HMC 22 Long/Short rods - how to remove the 1/4"-20 UNC grubscrew from the end

SimonS

Member
W&W HMC 22 Long/Short rods - how to remove the 1/4"-20 UNC grubscrew from the end

Win & Win's HMC 22 stabilisers use the smaller 1/4"-20 UNC thread for weights/dampers. Wanting to use a 5/16"-24 UNF screw for larger weights etc, but really struggling to get one of the screws out from the end of one rod (got first one out just by dipping in hot water). The screws appear to be glued in, but hot/boiling water not shifting it at the moment. Even tried holding the screw only over the gas hob, still didn't work. Don't want to heat any further down the rod/ferrule with a flame in case I damage the carbon etc.
Any reasonable suggestions welcomed.
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
It probably is just the glue. You can try wraping the ferrul in a wet cloth then heat the screw. The wet cloth will reduce the heat getting to the carbon but still allow more heat on the screw.
 
As above plus try tightening it a little first , as this sometimes will break the screw free of the thread lock with less effort
 

SimonS

Member
So, still no luck in getting this grubscrew out, heard that on the early production runs it was just a simple grubscrew, and on later production the grubscrew has a 'head' behind the ferrule, and the only way of getting the screw out is to try and get the ferrule off, which I assume is glued on and no easy task in itself, risking damage to the carbon rod.
Anybody got and info on weather this is the case ?
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I have taken the ferrule off a number of rods to shorten them. It is possible with a lot of care and I have user two methods. 1. very slowly so the ferrule doesn't get hotter than needed. 2. Very quick heating of ferrule and removal before too much heat gets to the carbon. Both have risks :(
Out of interest what weights do you need the 5/16 screws for as 1/4" will take a lot of weight?

 

Attachments

SimonS

Member
"Out of interest what weights do you need the 5/16 screws for as 1/4" will take a lot of weight?"

KidCurry: I happened to come across some 5mm thick SS discs at work, they were solid and by chance matched exactly the OD of the new Easton Z-Flex weights.
Also my son just bought some Z-Flex for his birthday so they will be additional weight for him to play around with as I have had the 5/16 thread machined in the middle.
Now my daughter wants to try the discs, so by chance I slipped the Easton coned adapter over the end of the HMC22 rod and its a nice fit apart from the grubscrew thread size in the end of the rod.
I know a couple of retailers sell an adapter from 1/4-20 UNC to 5/16-24 UNF, but they are not that long in the 5/16 thread length, so initially was planning on getting a couple to try out and if that did not work, then machine the threads out of the end of the rods and make into 5/16 thread and go but some longer grubscrews.
Just cant get the bloody grubscrew out !!
Out of interest, what method are you using to heat up the ferrule and what type of adhesive to glue it back on again ?
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
I use my Mapp Gas torch now but use to use the cooker gas hob. Problem with the gas hob is natural gas doesn't burn very hot so I only used the slow method. Mapp burns very hot :) I also hold the rod with a rubber glove as it often gives better leverage. Have you tried keeping the ferrule cool with a wet cloth but heating the grub screw very hot? Easier with a Mapp torch but butane burns quite hot as well.
Adhesive is regular 2 part epoxy
 

Rik

Supporter
Supporter
I use my Mapp Gas torch now but use to use the cooker gas hob. Problem with the gas hob is natural gas doesn't burn very hot so I only used the slow method. Mapp burns very hot :) I also hold the rod with a rubber glove as it often gives better leverage. Have you tried keeping the ferrule cool with a wet cloth but heating the grub screw very hot? Easier with a Mapp torch but butane burns quite hot as well.
Adhesive is regular 2 part epoxy
wouldn't heating the screw just jam it tighter? If you could keep the screw cold while heating the outer, that might work better... Or if the point is to break a bond, repeated differential heating/cooling might work - even just boiling and ice water. Let it sit in the ice water for a minute or so, then move to a pot of boiling.

Caveat - no guarantees that this would not break the bond between metal and carbon as well...
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
AIUK Saviour
wouldn't heating the screw just jam it tighter?
Generally yes to a degree, if the steel screw was in a steel ferrule and not glued in, but it is glued in an alluminium ferrule. The heat is needed to break down the chemical composition of the glue. Also the aluminium only needs half the heat of the steel to expand at the same rate of the steel. I did suggest heating the ferrule quickly but again there is always risk :)
 

SimonS

Member
As an alternative to risking damage, Fivics make thread conversion weights - would these do what you wanted? Weight :: FIVICS
Just checked back on this thread and found your reply jonUK76, didn't realise these existed but would be just what is required her, wont look pretty adapting out to a larger diameter weight but will do the job. Now the big question is, do you know anywhere in the UK that stocks them ?
 

jonUK76

Member
Hi Sizzler, I can't find them actually. I could swear that at one time I saw them on Merlin's site (I believe they are the main dealer/distributor for Fivics here) but if they were there, they don't appear to be now. Sorry. Lancaster Archery in the US has some. Alternatively I found these Fivics Damper Screws from Merlin Archery Ltd - which I imagine could be used to do the same thing, although I wonder if they are too long on the 1/4" side for most weights. Doinker sell similar bolts too.
 
Top