X10 are so weak

dottorfoggy

Member
I think I'm done with X10 and I'm considering to go back to the ace or something else.
With my 32,5" draw lenght the tip is so weak that every time i hit the wood frame of the target, for a mistake, they will immediately explode and is so painful lol
Is just me with this experience? I didn't get this bad with ace'sIMG_20200328_185748_968.jpg
I broke 6, I have 6 to go...
Been shhoting 8 months with this dozen
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
Okay..... this may seem really untactful and I really, really don't mean it to be but..... 'hitting the frame'? I assume this is long distance, ie 90m. I guess what I am really trying to say is, well, is your shooting up to the standard that would get the most out of x10s? I know it sounds untactful but it sounds like your choice of arrow might be a bit over the top. I shoot ACEs barebow at 90m and find them excellent. 50m down I shoot ACCs because they are tough. I am thinking of trying ACG at 50m down but ACCs work. I used to shoot C!s at 90m and they were excellent but my new club does not allow all carbons. When I was shooting compound C1s were quite capable of 1340+
Please take this post in the delicate nature it is offered as no offense is intended. I just had to ask.
 

dottorfoggy

Member
Genuine easton point @Timid Toad
I can see your point @KidCurry im shooting well, last summer my avg was up to 650 at 70m and 570 indoor in training and little less in competition
But the point is, when I fail, because I'm not an olimpic shooter, there is no chance that they survive, one hit on the frame result in a disaster, nothing like that with acc/ace that I was using before... I will downgrade to ace for sure, more durable arrow.
And is not easy to find a 32,5" shaft for me, not so many models to choose
 

Cereleste

Supporter
Supporter
You're not the only one from what I've read; this is one of the main reasons (besides FOC and the tip deforming) that people buy the expensive tungsten points. Since the inner diameter on the x10s is only about 3.2mm you need a really long shank to get the point mass without a ridiculously long tip on the point. But the side effect is increased stress concentration in the shaft at the end of the shank where it goes from rigid to bendy. Not as much of an issue with a shorter point like in a 4.2mm inner diameter ACE or wider where the shank ends closer to the tip because it's not preventing as much of a bend. When the X10 stops dead you get a lot of vibration in the rest of the shaft but no ability to bend in the tip, hence it breaking off right there. It looks like the carbon may have also delaminated from the aluminium tube in the process.
A dozen Easton tungsten points costs about the same as a dozen new ACE shafts or lightly used full arrows. They both have the same weight and straightness tolerances. 470s and stiffer size ACEs are all longer than 32.5", and the diameter at the centre is 0.4mm or about 7% more than equivalent X10s. But you'd also get about 6% more speed so the difference in wind resistance may not be that much.
 

dottorfoggy

Member
Yes, ace 370 looks the cheapest and stronger way
Here what I have home now
_20200329_113309.JPG
Have 400/370 just for spine test, a dozen of 430 but too weak for me now
 

geoffretired

Supporter
Supporter
Looking at the ACC v the rest, the leverage on the point when it strikes a glancing blow on something hard, is less than half that of the others. Plus, the shank is thicker too.
I have shot ACC 's and made glancing blows by accident against harder things than wood; they get a dent on the pile but rarely bend.
 

dottorfoggy

Member
Acc are too heavy for me for 90m,already with the X10 my sight is at the bottom end, ace looks the way for me. Acc are really rock solid btw
@Whitehart too expensive for 2 dozen of X10 :( I can't justify the price for me
 

Stretch

Active member
I have a ton of SS X10 points and none of them look like that. Is that really what the current X10 SS looks like? So these are snapped right down? And the shank looks hollow like an ACE point?

The only time I ever had problems was shooting at Stramit bosses (a little harder than concrete) in a 30mph cross wind. And they cracked (even on the occasion that you hit the middle), they didn’t snap. Hitting Wood is never a good idea, but even when I have done they didn’t snap.

And yes, I have a 32” arrow. Either 450 or 410 between 42# and 47#.

I found the X10 way more robust than the ACE.

Stretch
 

Timid Toad

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I have a ton of SS X10 points and none of them look like that. Is that really what the current X10 SS looks like? So these are snapped right down? And the shank looks hollow like an ACE point?

The only time I ever had problems was shooting at Stramit bosses (a little harder than concrete) in a 30mph cross wind. And they cracked (even on the occasion that you hit the middle), they didn’t snap. Hitting Wood is never a good idea, but even when I have done they didn’t snap.

And yes, I have a 32” arrow. Either 450 or 410 between 42# and 47#.

I found the X10 way more robust than the ACE.

Stretch
That's why I was asking - they don't look anything like my X10 SS points. My ACEs were way weaker than my X10s, but then I always shot them both with full weight points, not reduced, as I like plenty of FOC and never had trouble with sightmarks, even out to 100m.
 

Stretch

Active member
Ah, I see the aluminium sleeve makes it look like something else.

I used first and second generation steel points (which were dreadfully soft) and these SS but never had a breakage issue. I also used this gen SS for a year or two with no issues.

I now use tungsten but it’s just an affectation, picked them up cheap, I don’t need them and shoot Foam bosses all the time. Was shooting Egertec rocks when I switched.

If you’re putting them in with Easton Hot Melt and following the Easton instructions carefully then I probably have nothing to add. For the shaft to fail that easily and always in the same place I can only guess that the shaft is getting damaged in the point installation process - over heating or a bond that is too rigid? Or during the cutting process but I can’t think exactly how that would affect them this way.

I still have some of my original X10 shafts that I bought in early 1997. They have no logo left at all, plain black shafts, visibly thinner at the front from wear and always shot with the original steel points. They still shoot OK ish and are holding up if I chose to shoot them. So I don’t believe that there is a longevity issue with the x10.

But if I shot an ACE into a chunk of wood I’d kind of expect it to break based on my 5 years with them (Unless the wood was very soft]

Stretch
 

olis

Supporter
Supporter
Perhaps we should remember what these arrows were specially designed for,
i.e. the middle.
I treated myself to some ebay aces (really better than me) getting ready for the outdoor season some time ago, and they do look good in flight!
However, middle-magic-fairy-wands are quite delicate; and I managed to break one levering it out of the side of a field boss. Unlike my Carbon Ones which are as tough as old boots and really more my level:
In the sense that I am the limiting factor, which is generally true I think.
 

dottorfoggy

Member
Can be the fact that they result weak in my shooting form? Hitting right red the bare shaft with a standard tune.
Too weak at the tip, too much weight on the point, too much stress applied in the weakest part of the arrow.
No one ace or acc broke hitting the target wood chassis, just x10s, 6 bad shoot = 6 broke arrow
I broke some ace missing the target at 90m hitting some rocks hided under the grass.
In summer I can shoot 1000 per week and in winter over 500
There is a life span on arrows?
 

Stretch

Active member
Tuning has nothing to do with it if they are breaking when they hit wood. If the arrow was hitting a rock hard boss at a big angle over and over then maybe yes but that is not what you are describing. And point weight makes very little difference to the spine reaction of an x10 (and according to the designer everyone should shoot 100gr points ;))

If your x10 have no logos and banded markings left - so they just look black - then maybe they are shot out. You can look at the wear using a digital micrometer. But in the late 1990’s I’d shoot way more than 1000 arrows a week and at Egertec bosses for most of it. And my shafts were only 410s so thinner that yours.

I assume you bought them new? They weren’t second hand?

Whenever I have broken an x10 by shooting it into something it shouldn’t be in (yes we all do it) the point ends up rammed up the shaft and the carbon splays out and splinters... not snapped off. (I’m assuming that the wood is not exotic hardwood and that it is at distance!)

Oh and I just looked at your first picture again and they look shiny new. That is not what a shot out x10 looks like. Based on my experiences this shouldn’t be happening as you describe. I’d contact Easton and ask them what they think.

Stretch
 

KidCurry

Well-known member
There is a life span on arrows?
Sure, probably a couple of seasons at 1000/week. But lots of people have flagged the issue and why tungsten points are used. I've seen lots of broken X10s but always in straw and not foam. My thought is that there are two outcomes for an arrow hitting the target. The first is that it penetrates far enough that the whole pile in buried deep in the boss with the outer arrow shaft cushioned by the boss dampening the flex. The other outcome is the shaft does not penetrate the boss enough and the long pile inside the arrow is still proud of the boss. The arrow flex is not supported beyond the pile insert. This would explain why hard straw bosses make the problem worse while softer foam saw very few if any breakages and short tungsten points help also.
 

Timid Toad

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Can be the fact that they result weak in my shooting form? Hitting right red the bare shaft with a standard tune.
Too weak at the tip, too much weight on the point, too much stress applied in the weakest part of the arrow.
At short distance maybe, if the arrow is flying sideways.
 

Timid Toad

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I've put X10s in the wood and with care (and if I can borrow one, an arojak) can remove them and they are perfectly fine.
How did you get the huge chunk out of the aluminium shaft in the image you posted?
 

dottorfoggy

Member
About the tuning, center shot is 3mm on the left to have the bare shaft grouping with others and flying straight, walk back from 20 to 70 meters is OK, straight to the center
X10 are new, bought last summer, so maybe 8000 shoot with them
Easton recommend 100-120gr point, who recommend 100gr?
I will look deeper on how the others looks on the tip near the point, if they are intact or damaged.
I shoot just foam, and in some case the pass through the 30cm foam boss.
The first broken point in the picture is the last I broke, hitting the wood frame of the target as the others.

I think for long X10 this long as point apply too mush stiffness in the weakest part of the arrow and is the main cause of this problem.
I can try to cut to 100gr my points and keep train, also taking back the ace to see the spine for them
I will contact for sure easton for more deep technical investigation.
 
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