Crossbow Licensing

[Spike95609]

Has anyone seen that the government is calling for evidence to decide whether additional controls are needed for crossbow ownership - Controls on the use of crossbows on public safety grounds (accessible)

Depending on the evidence submitted no changes may be made, but three options are suggested: a license for sellers and suppliers of crossbows which would include an individual who owns a crossbow and wants to sell it; licensing sellers and buyers without police checks (similar to a fishing license); licensing sellers and buyers with police background checks (similar to a firearms license).

I don't own a crossbow myself, and I know they can have a bad reputation as they sometimes get used illegally, but there are many who use them safely and responsibly for field and target archery, and if something similar to a firearms license was introduced, which would presumably involve a fair amount of paperwork and expense, I can imagine that many would give it up, particularly those who own one but only use it every so often. Also I don't like the idea of setting a precedent for licensing archery equipment because it could be the thin end of the wedge which ultimately drags in the rest of us. And for what, because according to their own evidence crossbows were involved in just 10 homicides between 2011 and 2021. That's 10 too many of course, but as there are something like 6-700 murders in the UK each year, it doesn't seem like an urgent problem which needs to be addressed, but rather a knee-jerk reaction to the 2021 incident, which they cite, when someone got into the grounds of Windsor Castle with a crossbow.

They're also looking at possibly prohibiting the sale and possession of broadhead arrows. Which is not something that anyone in archery can really use, and in any case bow hunting has been banned in this country since the 1960s. Again though I don't like banning things for the sake of banning things, just because people who don't use them don't like the way they look.

If you're interested in submitting a view to the government on this, you can do so through that link before 9th April.

 

[Tech-50]

There will be the inevitable 'mission-creep' with this and it will expand to include compound bows, then recurves then trad bows inc the English Longbow. We all need to give our input to this and help to nip it in the bud.

This is another step aimed (literally) at disarming the public.

 

[Timid Toad]

As you say, it's a consultation paper, and it comes up every few years. So far the rsult has been to keep the status quo.

As to broadheads. in my view, it's something that needs tidying up. You can't use them but it's legal to sell and own them? That just provides a route into the hands of those who might wish harm or are at best foolish and will do harm. Somehow I don't think it'll put any legit archery retailers out of business so just sort it out. We do have an issue with them where I live because people are using them for illegal hunting of boar and deer (with crossbows). Often with terrible consequences, and as it's on public land, sooner or later it will be someone's pet, or worse.

 

[Spike95609]

I think there's been a few occasions in the past where licenses for archery equipment has been raised and it's come to nothing, but I think this still needs to be opposed because if it were to come in by the back door then we're stuck with it forever, and regulations only get tighter over time. The matter of broadheads is not a metaphorical hill I'm prepared to die on though, their existence doesn't bother me, but beyond the usual non-shooting re-enactment and historical items, there is no legitimate use for them in the UK.

 

[English Bowman]

As for owning of broadheads, I own a couple of sets of different types of broadheads. I use them in displays and when giving talks on historical archery, so whilst I would not hunt with them, or misuse them in any other way, I do have a legitimate reason to own them.
Before I started doing displays and talks I owned them and had them on display at home.
(I do shoot them in historical displays at foam targets as part of our demonstration.)

 

[dvd8n]

The rationale for allowing people to open broadheads was explained to me to be that it is legal for people to hunt abroad, and some people do.

Being allowed to own them means that the archer can make their arrows, tune their bows and travel abroad with a full kit rather than completing it once abroad and disposing of some of it before returning home.

Now, how legitimate this scenario truly is, I can't attest to ...

 

[Telemachus]

As usual with this sort of thing, such anti-crossbow legislation will have little impact on their misuse. The vast majority of owners are responsible. Laws exist to try to ensure safe usage: Crossbows And The Law – The National Crossbow Federation of Great Britain .

I suspect that, as is the case with many such laws, the difficulty is in enforcement. You can pass as many laws as you like but without that enforcement they're meaningless. The few idiots who aren't responsible are not going to pay attention to such legislation. It might make crossbows a little more difficult to get hold of - but that's all.

 

[Tech-50]

The rationale for allowing people to open broadheads was explained to me to be that it is legal for people to hunt abroad, and some people do.

Being allowed to own them means that the archer can make their arrows, tune their bows and travel abroad with a full kit rather than completing it once abroad and disposing of some of it before returning home.

Now, how legitimate this scenario truly is, I can't attest to ...

..sounds logical to me. If you are travelling overseas to hunt then it isn't likely you'd take all your arrow saw and other tuning kit with you? Better to do that before you left home.

 

[Tech-50]

I think there's been a few occasions in the past where licenses for archery equipment has been raised and it's come to nothing, but I think this still needs to be opposed because if it were to come in by the back door then we're stuck with it forever, and regulations only get tighter over time. The matter of broadheads is not a metaphorical hill I'm prepared to die on though, their existence doesn't bother me, but beyond the usual non-shooting re-enactment and historical items, there is no legitimate use for them in the UK.

Owning something and using it isn't the same thing though. I own several (serviceable, but at the back of the shed) TV sets but I don't use them...which is why I don't need a TV Licence.

Banning ownership achieves nothing sensible. The legislation is already in-place to prevent broadheads being 'used' in the UK (for anything other than educational Historical Display purposes) - all that is required is for the existing legislation to be applied correctly. Banning everything [insert chosen object here] is just an easy catchall for an Authoritarian Régime and the UK is rapidly heading toward that scenario now.

 

[Spike95609]

Owning something and using it isn't the same thing though. I own several (serviceable, but at the back of the shed) TV sets but I don't use them...which is why I don't need a TV Licence.

Banning ownership achieves nothing sensible. The legislation is already in-place to prevent broadheads being 'used' in the UK (for anything other than educational Historical Display purposes) - all that is required is for the existing legislation to be applied correctly. Banning everything [insert chosen object here] is just an easy catchall for an Authoritarian Régime and the UK is rapidly heading toward that scenario now.

I agree completely. As I said in the original post I don't like the idea of banning things just because a group of people who don't use them don't like the way they look. There's too much of "I don't do this, therefore nobody should be able to do it" in the modern world. However it's hard to argue the case for broadheads to someone who is just looking for an excuse to ban them, as said above there are a few reasons to possess them in the UK, but they will weigh that against the amount of people who illegally use them to hunt in the UK, and it'll be hard to overcome that argument if they really want to be rid of them. Not that it'll make any difference to what they're trying to stop because the one thing I've noticed about criminals is that by definition they don't tend to obey the law. But you've got a chance with crossbows as there's a perfectly legitimate use for them which will certainly be damaged by imposing restrictions on their sale.

 

[dvd8n]

Well, the story goes (may be apocryphal) that the Scottish government almost accidentally banned archery with it's knife legislation.

So don't assume that it won't affect you. I can easily see badly draughted legislation accidentally affecting compounds or field points.

 

[Tech-50]

Remember the €U$$R proposed legislation on E-number food addtives? In one particular case the additive used in 'prawn cocktail flavour' crisps had been left off the approved list. Rather than add it to the list, they deemed it easier (and more acceptable) to just ban the product! Eejits.

I can see the same thing happening here (as dvd8n alludes).

 

[dvd8n]

I can see this becoming more likely...

BBC News - Shoreditch residents 'terrified' after crossbow attacks

Shoreditch residents 'terrified' after crossbow attacks

Two people are shot in east London in separate but "linked" attacks, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Tech-50]

I can see this becoming more likely...

BBC News - Shoreditch residents 'terrified' after crossbow attacks

Shoreditch residents 'terrified' after crossbow attacks

Two people are shot in east London in separate but "linked" attacks, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Aye, I saw that earlier. Be interesting to see who they apprehend for this...... as the years pass, I become more convinced that some of these incidents are engineered & contrived in order to justify - and advance - a narrative. (I am not for one second suggesting that the victims of these attacks are not genuine, and they absolutely deserve our sympathy and support).

 

[MrTweedy]

I own and use a number of crossbows ( and compound bows), and a large number of broad head arrows and bolts of various weights and spines. They are all used for hunting, perfectly legally in a number of countries that I visit every year, ( The US at least once a year).
The bows, crossbows and the arrows are zeroed and tuned before every trip, which would be impossible to do if either/ both were banned and much more difficult if licensing was introduced.

 

[Timid Toad]

I own and use a number of crossbows ( and compound bows), and a large number of broad head arrows and bolts of various weights and spines. They are all used for hunting, perfectly legally in a number of countries that I visit every year, ( The US at least once a year).
The bows, crossbows and the arrows are zeroed and tuned before every trip, which would be impossible to do if either/ both were banned and much more difficult if licensing was introduced.

For the sake of argument alone, and in no way am I criticising your position, but would you be able to set up your bow on arrival, before setting out on the hunt? Presumably you already routinely check everything has survived the usual rough airline handling/ transportation (now *that* I do have experience of) as I would, and make changes repairs and tune as necessary.
My point is, I think, that you are probably in a very small minority who would be affected by a ban (because you choose to hunt abroad). But there will always be ways around this once in the US or wherever.

 

[MrTweedy]

For the sake of argument alone, and in no way am I criticising your position, but would you be able to set up your bow on arrival, before setting out on the hunt? Presumably you already routinely check everything has survived the usual rough airline handling/ transportation (now *that* I do have experience of) as I would, and make changes repairs and tune as necessary.
My point is, I think, that you are probably in a very small minority who would be affected by a ban (because you choose to hunt abroad). But there will always be ways around this once in the US or wherever.

I could do some final checks, and I always check zero etc. But proper tuning, with a new set of arrows, for example, takes a longtime and needs appropriate facilities. Obviously it's not impossible, just significantly more difficult.

 

[Raven's_Eye]

I could do some final checks, and I always check zero etc. But proper tuning, with a new set of arrows, for example, takes a longtime and needs appropriate facilities. Obviously it's not impossible, just significantly more difficult.

Not in line with the main thread, but when tuning what type of target do you shoot at? I'm guessing broadheads mess them up pretty bad.

 

[MrTweedy]

Not in line with the main thread, but when tuning what type of target do you shoot at? I'm guessing broadheads mess them up pretty bad.

Heavy solid closed cell foam targets, thick enough to stop the arrow/bolt before the vanes but thin enough that the broadhead is all the way through ( so I can unscrew them without damaging the arrows or the blades). The targets normally last no more than one season.
I always have two sets of identical broadheads, one set for zeroing, tuning and practicing, and the other set kept new ( and sharp) for the hunting season.

 

[mk1]

Well, the story goes (may be apocryphal) that the Scottish government almost accidentally banned archery with it's knife legislation.

So don't assume that it won't affect you. I can easily see badly draughted legislation accidentally affecting compounds or field points.

It's a dim and distant memory but new legislation was brought in in Scotland in 2007 that meant shops selling knives, swords, arrows etc have to register and obtain a licence. It was much frowned upon at the time by fencers as they often traded swords etc at competition and the licence applied to premises - some mild and sensible exemptions were brought in in 2010 to allow for teaching situtations where equipment was essentially hired and use was supervised.