bow category help

[bearded bowyer]

Hi everyone
I've just made a stunning pyramid bow.
BUT
some of the guys at our NFAS field club think I may not be able to use it because the concave sweep out from the handle could be used as a sight marker..........

any thoughts?

Matt

 

[sreynolds]

I sometimes wonder, in all of the thousands of years of archery that "traditional" archery presumably emulates, did it never once occur to anyone to make marks on their bow to aid in aiming or in judging distance?

 

[blakey]

Hi everyone
I've just made a stunning pyramid bow.
BUT
some of the guys at our NFAS field club think I may not be able to use it because the concave sweep out from the handle could be used as a sight marker..........

any thoughts?

Matt

I'm no expert on NFAS rules but I thought common sense might prevail. The design of the bow should not be held against it. Deliberate marks on the riser are another story. I only shoot FITA and I have had judges threaten to stick tape on my riser. Pretty silly really when I use the arrow as POA. I have often wondered if one had a yew longbow, with a judicious scattering of knots, especially one or two an inch or three above the bow hand, whether that would be useful. Pointless though, since one is allowed to use a rubber band. I suppose the only way you're going to get a definitive answer to your problem, is to turn up at a meet and shoot your bow. I doubt that anything will be said, but I am never surprised at the influence the exercise of power has over the human ego. Cheers

 

[bobnewboy]

Hi everyone
I've just made a stunning pyramid bow.
BUT
some of the guys at our NFAS field club think I may not be able to use it because the concave sweep out from the handle could be used as a sight marker..........

any thoughts?

Matt

Sounds like guff to me. If it has an arrow shelf, or you use plastic arrow nocks then it could be shot in AFB if you like. If it has no arrow shelf, and you shoot self nocked arrows, it should be shot in Primitive. Simples.

 

[Deleted member 7654]

I sometimes wonder, in all of the thousands of years of archery that "traditional" archery presumably emulates, did it never once occur to anyone to make marks on their bow to aid in aiming or in judging distance?

No... because they didn't know the distance of the target. Bows were used for killing food or enemies who rarely stand stationary for an afternoon at a known distance.
Most hunting is done at very short range.
Del

 

[sreynolds]

No... because they didn't know the distance of the target. Bows were used for killing food or enemies who rarely stand stationary for an afternoon at a known distance.
Most hunting is done at very short range.
Del

Hunting is done at short range only when you lack the power or accuracy to do it at longer range. No hunter -- particularly not one hunting for survival rather than sport -- would turn down an enhancement to his weapon that expands his kill radius. And the target need not remain stationary all day; the hunter needs only the time to evaluate the shot and launch. If a few marks on your bow would help you judge the distance quickly and accurately, I expect that most hunters would happily mark their bows -- but someone has to come up with the idea first.

Sights as we understand them today were first used in competition in (I think) 1937. The idea may have been around for some time before that, but I haven't seen any historical information on the subject. Was it only after introduction of the add-on sighting device that someone realized that a scratch on the handle is only slightly less effective? In my experience, most bows have something -- often several things -- on them that can be used as sighting aids and/or range finders. When you try to make those things illegal, what you do is convert the sport from a test of who can best execute shots to a test of who can come up with the best undetected cheat. The FITA folks (now World Archery) apparently at some point recognized the futility of trying to rule out every possible sight aid and chose to allow the rubber-band as a means of leveling the field without completely spoiling the concept of "traditional" archery. Other organizations still try to maintain the fiction that none of their traditional archers have sights (or brains).

 

[Deleted member 7654]

... If a few marks on your bow would help you judge the distance quickly and accurately...

Other organizations still try to maintain the fiction that none of their traditional archers have sights (or brains).

Please explain how a few marks on your bow help to judge distance.

Were this the case, the distance between the knuckles on the hand of your extended arm could be used for the same system. Maybe it was, and that's the answer to your question.
However I suspect that early man would be more reliant on a distance estimation based on experience and other visual clues rather than one requiring a formal distance measurement system and some sort of arithmetic. I think most hunting shots would be taken at 'point on' or closer.
Of course speculation is futile as the only thing we know is that we have no historical evidence for the use of sights in early archery.
Del
BTW, I don't think there is really any question regarding the presence of brains in the skull of even Neolithic man. His skill and intellect is self evident in his artwork, craft and survival even in a ice age.
Please don't fall into the modern trap of thinking that being able to use a mobile phone or credit card is a sign of superior intelligence.

 

[Deleted member 7654]

@ Sreynolds.
Have a read of this discussion about hunting with modern bows.
The effective killing range of a bow... | Field & Stream
Del

 

[bearded bowyer]

Very interesting link Del.
Are there any officials online here who could say? if I put a pic of the bow up?
I have a tiny yew riser on my longbow that could be argued, gives me a point of reference...
All seems a bit silly to me... I bet a good 'instinctive' archer could shoot equally as well as one with marks all over his bow....because unless you have a very long tape measure, judging exact distances over varied terrain is very, very difficult.

 

[Deleted member 7654]

Yeah, all that stuff irritates me, if I wanted sight marks I'd have 'em and I'd admit to using them. I have no patience with anyone who thinks I'm going to cheat... I don't want tatty trophies cluttering up the house anyway!
I just shoot for the fun of it... if anyone decides my bow isn't primitive enough, I don't care what they categorise it as... they can call it a compound for all I care, as long as I get to shoot !
Del

 

[bearded bowyer]

Well said that man, I couldn't agree more!
I think I will enter the compound category with it and see what happens ;-)

 

[English Bowman]

The FITA folks (now World Archery) apparently at some point recognized the futility of trying to rule out every possible sight aid and chose to allow the rubber-band as a means of leveling the field without completely spoiling the concept of "traditional" archery. Other organizations still try to maintain the fiction that none of their traditional archers have sights (or brains).

Have they changed the rules then?

Because last time I competed under World Archery longbow rules (We'd call it AFB) no sighting aids were allowed and any marks that could have been used were covered up by the judges by a long strip of tape. Admittedly this was a couple of years ago, but this rule banning all sighting aids are still banned in Archery GB (GNAS) rules for unsighted classes in field archery. (Compound Barebow, Barebow, Trad, AFB & Longbow)

 

[Smoknnca]

I sometimes wonder, in all of the thousands of years of archery that "traditional" archery presumably emulates, did it never once occur to anyone to make marks on their bow to aid in aiming or in judging distance?

Yes, traditional shooters are busted all the time here in the states using that in competition. However for traditional bow hunting it works great.

 

[bearded bowyer]

Just to add fuel to the fire, I thought I would post some pics of the bow in question. It's the second one I've made, the first one was a guy in London.
I loved it so much I made my self one too. Its Hickory, purple heart, maple in various layers. Theres some hazel wood in there somewhere too.....



Neither the handle or the laminations were made to be used as a guide, but what do you all think?

 

[Deleted member 7654]

Very pretty
As the marks don't go to the edge of the bow, I'd argue they can't be used as sight marks, anyhow, masking tape would cover them if some jobsworth made a fuss.
Del

 

[Renton]

Please explain how a few marks on your bow help to judge distance.

I'll just say that this isn't necessarily used but is possible since you asked.

Two marks can quite easily be used to estimate age based on comparisons. You really need to know the size of the target though.
Say you were hunting rabbits - adult wild rabbits tend to be a fairly uniform size.
If you had a rabbit at 30yds and held up your bow then marked the top and bottom you would now be able to tell when another rabbit was at roughly 30yds as it would fill the area between the two marks - closer and it would be larger than the marks further and it wouldn't fill the space. The more distances you want to know the more marks you put on.
Some modern military scopes use a similar system called mil dots - at a known magnification you can use the dots to measure the height of a person and then estimate the distance. The dots can then be used for lead and or holdover/under.

 

[Deleted member 7654]

Ta'
Del

 

[Renton]

Ta'
Del

It'd be a bit of a faff to set up though so I think true instinctive is much more likely for early hunters though I'm no good at it and mostly use POA or a band at short distance (20-30yds) for target and "guess" on the occasions I shoot field.