How short can a short short-bow be?

B

bearded bowyer

New member
Hi everyone
Crappy weather has forced my buddy and myself to make a indoor range in a very large outbuilding. We can shoot up to 25 meters..BUT.. the ceiling is really low.
Ive already knocked the top nock off my warbow forgetting to turn the bow obliquely enough.
So I want to make a couple of flatbows for us. 50-60lb in draw weight.
I still want a decent drawlength of 28 inches, but how short can you go without risking breakage. ( dont want to waste wood)
My widest bit of ash is just over 2 inches wide, so cant make a pyramid bow unless I get more wood.

over to you all

matt
 
M

m1tch

New member
Check out some of the horsebows, they are usually very compact due to needing to be shot off horseback, here is my ebay horsebow, I have just got a Grozner horsebow which is probably around 2-4" shorter

 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Just checked my primitives, all about the 64" mark, one is down at 60". My fave' "Twister" is 64"
I made a half size miniature ELB here, Bowyer's Diary: Finished Miniature
It was pretty quick and I took it to a 14.5" draw.
I've also got a little Osage shortie 39" long, which spits out arrows from a short draw.
As a rule of thumb, a reasonable achievable (to a decent bowyer) lower limit on bow length is 2 x draw length. So for 28" draw you are looking at 56" minimum, but that would be a bend in handle design. If you round that up to say 60" you should be comfortable (again V short grip or bend in the handle)
Del
 
Berny

Berny

Active member
You asked the general question of how short & further qualified by 28" draw (& your piece of ash).
Others have replied as if you are only considered something along the lines of a self/primitive bow.
How about something laminated & recurved?
For your design inspiration here's some cogitative material, all drawing to 28-29":
the 52"er on the right (the one on the left is 62")

or even this little 46"er
 
Berny

Berny

Active member
The Tarbell Interceptor was 46" also I think (not sure of original date but this pic from '68)
 
H

Hudzi93

New member
The grozer short turkish bow is 42" long when strung. It has a max draw length of 30" with a thumb draw or 28-29" with a med 3-finger draw
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
m1tch said:
I guess that was perhaps before they starting making compact compound bows for hunting etc.
Click to expand...
That looks remarkably like Hickman's original design for a more efficient scientifically designed bow giving more even acceleration and an even limb stress.
Del
 
B

bearded bowyer

New member
Thanks for the responses. Im not really a re-curve type of guy.
I'm thinking more on the lines of Del's ideas. 60 inches tops flatbow with full compass tiller. Minimal built up handle ( but a pretty one ;-))
If I back it with some fiberglass mesh tape, do you think I could make it even shorter.
I'm really a longbow/warbow guy. These bows are just for use indoors when we cant get outside to use our big toys, they don't need to be pretty, just functional.
 
B

bearded bowyer

New member
or just get a gun.........
I have a crossbow and a crossbow pistol......both require almost no skill to shoot accurately. (ooooh that will upset some people..) They sit in my workshop gathering dust, but in full view to remind me of what I never want to become..... The only exception is Del's repeating crossbow...thats just brilliant engineering.
Hey what about a spear!!! Now that does require a lot of skill to hit a target.

Enough sillyness

Back to topic please
 
K

Kieran Little

Member
Ive got a white oak bow in progress thats a plains' indian/mollegabet/holmegaard hybrid style thats 57" NTN.

Its currently tillered to 25" but its a bit hair raising to draw.

Pyramid bows are odd in my opinion, I don't know how short I'd make them but my smallest is 64" NTN and draws 120#.

Realistically, have a look at the plains' indian bows, they can get down pretty small and seem to handle the stresses well.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Step away from the fibreglass tape!
That sort of stuff will just make the belly more likely to chrysal.
Rawhide (or linen?) backing would give some safety factor, without over stressing the belly.
Del
 
K

Kieran Little

Member
@Del ever tried sinew backing?

Got hold of a bit of the stuff and trialled it, seems like a fun game..

That is the added benefit of safety in a short bow and gives you a bit of extra speed.
 
D

Deleted member 7654

Guest
Kieran Little said:
@Del ever tried sinew backing?

Got hold of a bit of the stuff and trialled it, seems like a fun game..

That is the added benefit of safety in a short bow and gives you a bit of extra speed.
Click to expand...
I did a little Sinewed Ash bow once used Titebond glue... I'd read that sinewed bows are virtually unbreakable... not this one!
If I did another I'd use hide glue and more layers of sinew. It's one heck of a fiddly job, but it's on my to-do list of bows.
So many bows, so little time!
Del
 
K

Kieran Little

Member
Haha, quite!

I reckon hide glue is the way to go, it formed a real matrix with the sinew when I used it, pain to get it the right consistency though..

I thought the recommended three layers sounded excessive, but realistically its a working part of the bow, more like a lamination than a silk/linen backing I thought.

(I'm trying desperately not to sound patronising, and I have no intention of being patronising to you here Del because youve got a hell of a lot more experience and knowledge than me and these are just things I've played with and I'm saying what occurred to me at the time)
 
WillS

WillS

New member
I'm not sure where you got 4" wide from as a design. That's way too wide. My pyramid ash bows are never wider than 2", for weights from kids bows at 15# up to a 55# (that popped a splinter but that doesn't count...)

If you have a piece of ash 2" wide and about 60" long that's a prime candidate for a speedy high powered flatty. Make sure you heat treat at floor tiller, again at halfway through tillering, and again at the end.
 
B

bearded bowyer

New member
Thanks Wills
Thats exactly what I had in mind, would you recommend backing it with something?
BTW 4 inch wide plan comes from hillary greenlands book 'the traditional archers handbook' it was my first book back in the early nineties...
I'm also looking at a hickory flatbow as I have some left over that is 60" long I think i may also have a bit of yew that may work too...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top