Falling foul of rule 304(j)

[Nightimer]

I was told; but cannot confirm the truth of this, that shooting practice on the targets/ shooting line set out for the round, was not allowed.

I believe that to be correct.
Many moons ago I got pulled up for that very same thing when our club was hosting a league match.
We set out the field and had plenty of time,so I thought why not.
The field captain bought me back to earth with a bump !!!

 

[Furface]

Just to complicate what you are saying Vagabond - the FITA rules only apply when the shoot is WRS - if it is UKRS or less then AGB Rules apply.....

Not quite. Rule 310 says:

310. FITA Recognised Rounds When the FITA recognised rounds listed in Table 3-3 are
shot, the minimum application of FITA Rules shall be as given below. At the Organiser’s
discretion, additional FITA rules may apply, in which case details must be shown on the
prospectus (entry form) for the tournament.
(a) Club Target Days and Non-Record Status Tournaments. Shooting may be entirely
under GNAS rules.
(b) UK Record Status Tournaments. FITA recognised rounds shot to UK Record Status are
seen as an intermediary stage between non-Record Status and World Record Status.
(i) The following elements of FITA rules should be applied:
a. Marking of 3 metre line
b. Number of arrows for each shooting end
c. Timing and audible control of shooting ends
d. Marking of arrow holes, FITA bouncer and passthrough rules.
(ii) The GNAS procedures for sighters may be used.
(c) World Record/FITA Award Status Tournaments. World Record/FITA Award Status
tournaments are to be shot to the FITA standards for non-championship/noninternational
events.

Now, leaving aside that a) this is contradictory - at club target days shooting may be under GNAS rules, except a minimum of FITA rules must apply and b) despite hints in the first paragraph, no minimum set of FITA rules is defined, what we have is a typical pig's ear where rules have been allowed to evolve until they become nonsensical. (How about the case at the Junior Nationals where the ruling was "one end of practice shall be allowed"?).
What is needed, as for all rules, is to go back to basics: what do we want to achieve; how do we achieve this clearly and concisely. We want to prevent archers acquiring an undue advantage in a competition by having an opportunity to practice unavailable to others; we achieve this by saying something along the lines of "an archer may not shoot on the field or at targets designated for a competition on the day of the competition before the time assigned for practice or sighters, unless he does so using none of the equipment he intends to use in the competition (including tabs, quivers, binoculars, etc)"

 

[Adam]

On a similar but slightly different note, can anyone explain to me why (or perhaps how), at a Fita Star tournament (Wiltshire Fita Star) only 6 arrows or "sighters" are shot instead of practice (and therefore an unlimited number of arrows) of at least one end? This has bugged me every single year that I've done the shoot as I was under the impression that a Fita round, billed as a Star tournament, had to allow practice. Please, Mr Potts, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mk1]

On a similar but slightly different note, can anyone explain to me why (or perhaps how), at a Fita Star tournament (Wiltshire Fita Star) only 6 arrows or "sighters" are shot instead of practice (and therefore an unlimited number of arrows) of at least one end? This has bugged me every single year that I've done the shoot as I was under the impression that a Fita round, billed as a Star tournament, had to allow practice. Please, Mr Potts, correct me if I'm wrong.

Someone defo needs to have a word!! Sometimes TO's are not up on all the rule changes, but the judges should sort it out on the day and eventually what is said on the entry form will catch up

 

[Raven's_Eye]

Why do FITA rounds need 45 mins practice, surely archery comps are ment to be a test of skill from the start not lets have in effect a short round to get use to the field we're visiting.

 

[Adam]

Someone defo needs to have a word!! Sometimes TO's are not up on all the rule changes, but the judges should sort it out on the day and eventually what is said on the entry form will catch up

I'm looking at the entry form now. It says Fita Star, but also "one end of SIGHTERS". How can this be? I was under the impression - correct me if I'm wrong - that there was a minimum requirement for practice in all Star tournaments.

 

[mk1]

I'm looking at the entry form now. It says Fita Star, but also "one end of SIGHTERS". How can this be? I was under the impression - correct me if I'm wrong - that there was a minimum requirement for practice is all Star tournaments.

You are correct - there is.

 

[bimble]

I will admit, I thought it was phrased as "up to 45min of practice", so could be timed for just a single end... though would expect that to still be as many as you wish to shoot in the time limit.

 

[Flying Whale]

Someone defo needs to have a word!! Sometimes TO's are not up on all the rule changes, but the judges should sort it out on the day and eventually what is said on the entry form will catch up

The problem with that... was that the judge in charge (at least last year) was at the time the Chair of the GNAS rules committee. When I also raised the question I was sent away with my flea in my ear, with a response that bordered on the rude, by said person. One reason I probably will never go back to that tournament again.

 

[bimble]

Found it:

16.1.2. At other World Archery events practice shall be for a maximum of 45 minutes but may be less and the competition shall start as soon as possible.

though the later part of that rule does mean I get annoyed at shoots like the Middlesex where they hold assembly after practice...

 

[mk1]

I will admit, I thought it was phrased as "up to 45min of practice", so could be timed for just a single end... though would expect that to still be as many as you wish to shoot in the time limit.

Yup - some shoots have one end of practice, some have two - some have more, if there is just one detail sometimes practoce time is curtailed with the agreement of the field - I forget what the original FITA wording was and what changed in the past couple of years - but certainly it's no skin off any TO's nose timewise to have one end of practice instead of one end of sighters.

Ha - I know what changed - the requirement to have at least 15 minutes between practice and commencement of the shoot.

 

[Adam]

Yup - some shoots have one end of practice, some have two - some have more, if there is just one detail sometimes practoce time is curtailed with the agreement of the field - I forget what the original FITA wording was and what changed in the past couple of years - but certainly it's no skin off any TO's nose timewise to have one end of practice instead of one end of sighters.

Ha - I know what changed - the requirement to have at least 15 minutes between practice and commencement of the shoot.

An end of 4 minutes is still and end of 4 minutes. Why not allow everyone to shoot as many arrows as possible in the allotted time? Seems ludicrous to me. As with Flying Whale, I do the same dance every year with the same judge and every following year the entry form still insists that one end of sighters will be shot. All I want to know, is can the TO/judge do this? Or, with this being billed as a Star event and therefore WRS, do other rules apply?

 

[mk1]

An end of 4 minutes is still and end of 4 minutes. Why not allow everyone to shoot as many arrows as possible in the allotted time? Seems ludicrous to me. As with Flying Whale, I do the same dance every year with the same judge and every following year the entry form still insists that one end of sighters will be shot. All I want to know, is can the TO/judge do this? Or, with this being billed as a Star event and therefore WRS, do other rules apply?

Adam - I'm certain it should be practise and not sighters. I had a similar problem with a couple of shoots in Scotland as the TO didn't know things had changed and kept churning out the same entry form he'd inherited with the sighters and the inspection/assembly - I had a few words with a few people and it got sorted on the day and I got one thing changed on the entry form and eventually the other bit got changed too so it now says what actually will happen

 

[Furface]

..... Seems ludicrous to me. As with Flying Whale, I do the same dance every year with the same judge and every following year the entry form still insists that one end of sighters will be shot. .....

But when the judge in question is a prominent activist at all levels of the society, has more "knowledge" of archery than any mere mortal can possibly gain in a lifetime, and is a fully paid-up member of the "that's the way we do things in archery" cosy club, you must remember that the application of rules to him is a tasteless irrelevance.

 

[Adam]

But when the judge in question is a prominent activist at all levels of the society, has more "knowledge" of archery than any mere mortal can possibly gain in a lifetime, and is a fully paid-up member of the "that's the way we do things in archery" cosy club, you must remember that the application of rules to him is a tasteless irrelevance.

You've met him then?

 

[hooktonboy]

I don't think it's reasonable to count testing bows as "practice". As mk1 said above, talk to the Chair of the Rules Committee and get a 2nd opinion.

Couldn't agree more Martin. It's hard to imagine how it could be defined as practice when you don't use your own bow. Some people really need to get a grip (sorry). The tempting response to the club is, of course, to say "sort your own have-a-go, then". But I think Bristolianish would rise above that and is trying to get a common-sense definition. Let's hope one is forthcoming....

 

[bristolianish]

Thank you all so much for taking time to think about and discuss this. Every comment has been really helpful whether you agree with me or not and has given me the opportunity to explore other issues with my club and committee.

I have contacted the chairman of the rules committee and he has promised to consider everything and give his decision in due course. One thing that has become clear is that the rules of shooting give no definition of 'practice', and it is unclear if there is any definition elsewhere. Taken to it's least logical absurdity under the current rules it would appear that almost anything could constitute practice from using a training band to 30 minutes of Ti Chi as favoured by one of our older members.

So whatever happens with regard to my own position I hope that some clear guidelines will come from the governing body. Then we can all sing from the same hymn sheet even if we don't agree with the words ...

 

[Furface]

....So whatever happens with regard to my own position I hope that some clear guidelines will come from the governing body. Then we can all sing from the same hymn sheet even if we don't agree with the words ...

I suspect that this quote could be inserted in 90% of the threads on this forum, going back to the start - and that 90% of those would have been disappointed.
But we have a new Chairman of Rules (who has been known to dip in here!) and I have every faith in him.