Is the Easton Adjustable V-Bar a reasonable bit of kit? Other v-bar recommendations?

[Dhansak]

Hi All

I am just at the stage of going from just a long rod recurve setup, to kitting out with a a full set of stabilizers. I am an average-joe club archer, not a skilled competitor, so am looking for a decent no-fuss, long lasting solution that doesn't cost a fortune.

Initially I plan to keep my current long rod (a Cartel Balkan - cost about ?40 I think), and get a couple of cheap short rods (Winner SATS - about ?40 a pair) to see how I get on. However, I want to get a good v bar (adjustable) as I'd guess this would be the main thing where bad design could mess up the whole kaboodle? So I'd rather spend a bit more on the v-bar and get something I can keep for good then change the rods later if it's worth it (i.e. if I ever get good enough!).

This sort of thinking got me buying a Shibuya as my first sight for about ?150 at the time - not much different in price to my Hoyt Horizon riser (then). However, I've never regretted the purchase as it has been rock solid - unlike those around me who spent about ?60 on their sights but continually have to re-tighten or have bits dropping off! I was lucky to have been given good advice at the time (here!). So I want to make the right choice of V-bar too (hoping they are all great but suspecting they are not..)

Anyway, was about to push the button on the Easton adjustable v-bar (it is about ?65) then found an old(ish) review that mentioned plastic teeth stripping and the bar only lasting six months. Yikes. Can't tell if this the current version or not though.

Can anyone advise me if it is in fact any good please? I was also looking at the Shrewd, B-Stinger and Doinker Mighty Mount Mini adjustable v-bars - but none of them came with a bolt to mount them on the riser. These bolts added a reasonable percentage to the cost and it just seemed like a sneaky way of hiding the real price, so rubbed me up the wrong way lol. Will calm down and reassess those if that's just the way it is

All suggestions gratefully received - thanks!

 

[geoffretired]

There is a chance that the long rod alone is doing everything you need for shooting well.
Having a V bar and short rods does, at first sight, seem like a great idea. Many top archers go that route.
I remember the first time I took the same route. The bow did feel very stable; but it would; wouldn't it? All the extra weight and at a distance from the CoG had to do something; yes?
There can be a down side, though. To keep the bow slightly front heavy, the extra back weights need to be balanced with extra front weight. There is now more extra weight than would first seem necessary. I am tall and skinny and the extra weight cost me in shoulder damage; and I gained nothing from the increased bow stability. The extra mass made the shots less lively and that lead into a deadening of the shots feel.
My thoughts are that the guys shooting high poundage can manage from a strength point of view and the bow benefits ,too.
Lighter draw weights are usually managed by archers who are not built for weight lifting; and their bows don't kick so hard that they need lots of stabiliser weights.
It might be worth trying to borrow a set from someone you shoot with to find out what the gear has to offer.

 

[bimble]

my (again, old) Easton adjustable v-bar had the plastic teeth, and they would break, especially if you had a lot of weight on them. They may have changed the design since then. I currently use a Doinker on one bow (the blurb said you could hang *any amount* of weight on it), and a Mybo one on the other. Both of which I am very happy with.

 

[Aleatorian]

+1 for the Doinkers

I've got the small body offset bar on my bow, and i'm currently hanging 20oz off of the 12" side rod that is attached to it. No movement yet.

The Easton offset i had prior, that had metal teeth but these stripped after not too long use

 

[Rik]

Does it have to be adjustable? You're probably better off with a fixed one (less to go wrong).

 

[GoneBad]

Another vote for the Mybo v-bars. Infinitely adjustable and rock solid. I've had 35oz hanging off a 15" short rod without a problem.
Mybo 3 Sixty Adjustable V-Bar from Merlin Archery Ltd

 

[Dhansak]

Thanks for all the help and feedback guys - much appreciated.

Geoff - interesting points made (as usual!). I'm definitely in the low draw weight category so I would benefit less I guess - if I would at all....
I have only shot a bow with full stabilisers a couple of times and the bows felt wonderful to draw. Oddly I don't recall how they felt to shoot - hmm. Whether I would shoot better with practice is of course The Question. I think I may have problems borrowing a set from the club to try out unfortunately. The club has a lot of members on paper, but proportionately relatively few actually come and shoot these days. Those that do, are mainly newish and have less kit than I do. I missed lots of the "old guard" when they disappeared - if I'd known they were moving onto other things I would have asked for a loaner - think I've missed the boat though - I'm sure those folk would have had spares!

bimble & Aleatorian - thanks for the positives re Doinker and the not too great reports about the Easton kit (I wouldn't have expected that - pity)

GoneBad - I have heard good things about the Mybo v-bars. Sorry - I should have mentioned that I am looking at one particular shop (not the wizardy one) as I am looking to use up a chunk of store credit. The choices on my potential list are the Doinker - Mighty Mount Mini Fully Adjustable V-Bar, the Shrewd and the B-Stinger (non Elite). There are other much more expensive versions from Doinker and B-Stinger available as well of course!

Rik - I do get that the fixed v bar variants have a lot going for them, not least in terms of having less to go wrong. I would have preferred them in fact. But my thinking is based on just one experience when I had the opportunity to fit a set of stabilizers on my own bow (no chance to shoot though!). I got the balance pretty well except that the weight of the sight tipped things over (that surprised me). The stabiliser set was the SF velocity - i.e. fixed v bar with no extra weights for the rods. The only way I could try and balance the bow with the sight on, was to take the weight off one of the short rods. As it happens - that worked perfectly. But it made me wonder what I would do if that hadn't worked. So I thought I had 2 options:

1) Get a fixed bar with short rods that came with weights so I could tweak that way
2) Get rods with no extra weights but tweak with an adjustable v-bar.

I couldn't find any for option 1 (at the price point I was looking at) and was also concerned that weights may be proprietry i.e. weights from manufacturer X wouldn't fit rods from Y etc. For this reason I ambled down path 2 - seemed rosy to begin with but brambles soon appeared lol. Are there any shorts rod that would fit the bill to go with a fixed v-bar that would allow tweaking? Budget total is about ?120-140; I could spend more but know I am not of a standard to merit it!

Thanks again all.

 

[jerryRTD]

Cartel Midas adjustable V bar from Merlin Archery Price ?14.95 perfectly adequate for a medium weight setup like joe average's .

 

[geoffretired]

I got the balance pretty well except that the weight of the sight tipped things over (that surprised me).

Yes, that would surprise me, too. But I guess with a long rod only , when held lightly in the hand, the tendency is for the bow to overbalance forwards so the sight's effect goes undetected. With a v bar balancing the bow, the forward balance can be reduced to zero leaving only the sight to tip it off balance.

 

[Dhansak]

jerryRTD - thanks for that - unfortunately the shop that I have credit with doesn't stock that one. On second thoughts I guess I could ask them to order anything if their supplier supports it.

Geoff - yes was amazed at the shift in balance with the sight - never thought of it as heavy enough to make a difference! Not as much difference as my variable shooting though....

Another surprise - was mulling over my options before nodding off last night (sad I know - but it's my best mulling time), when I remembered a vbar someone kindly gave me in th 80s! This morning I had a rummage in my old, old bow box and found it. It's quite heavy but looks well machined and is adjustable. The adjustment looks like it needs some sort of star head driver - will have to look and see if what I have will even fit the adjustment sockets. Another thing is that the long rod hole is significantly bigger that the short rod holes.

Is it normal for short rod threads to be a different size (smaller) to the long rod threads these days? On the plus side, my current long rod does fit the old v-bar.

Also - apologies to all for the big bold text bit in my previous post - I wasn't shouting! Looks like some formatting carried over with a paste - wasn't visible in the preview..

 

[geoffretired]

The old v bar will give you a good feel for what goes on with the full stab set up.
It was the fashion to have short rods on thinner threads; does that thread match the ones on the weights for your long rod? I think it might be 1/4" unc.
One other aspect of the sight and its effect on balance is that it is mounted above the cog so tends to upset rather than settle the bow. Having one short rod further out on the opposite side can help balance. and having the one on the same side, closer in to the string line.
After the beginners' course I offer any new starters a set of five or six sessions where we go through stuff that isn't easily possible on the beginners' course.
The first session is designed to get them thinking about how they can make learning new stuff, easier. So short distances and often no target face. Also in that session I try to show that money doesn't have to be spent on everything we need, so I ask them to bring in a shoe lace and we quickly make a wrist type sling. With the slings on we aim at the boss with the bow hand and they can see for themselves how the hand tends to grab or twitch at the grip. Once they see what they are doing, it is easier for them to know when they get it right and remain relaxed.
It was during one of these sessions that it struck me how useful a long rod is on such occasions. With a bare bow it jumps in all directions and they grab at it for security, which delays their progress towards a relaxed hand. I offer my spare longrods and ask any with their own to fit them and note the difference.
The bows jump predictably and fall to the slings in a sort of slow motion. They can feel this and watch it as it happens. They are part way to getting a form of repetition at the bow hand end of things. A repetition that lasts for a second or so beyond that point of release.

 

[geoffretired]

A long rod, I find, is more than just to steady the aim and steady the bow during the power stroke. It extends the time needed to complete the execution of the shot; the follow through. It gives them something else to do apart from collapse at the release without being aware of it.

 

[mbaker74]

I actually went through the same thought process about 2 yrs ago and bought he Easton adjustable V Bar- biggest waste of money I have ever spent in archery. I had no issues with the teeth but that damn thing would not stay done up tight, every hour or so shooting I was tightening it up. I should add I didn't have a vibration issue with my bow at the time, All the rods, sight etc all stayed tight throughout a session.
I sold it and bought a Cartel fixed V Bar which was no more trouble. When I bought a new Uukha set up a year ago I also bought a full set of WIAWIS stabilisers and a matching fixed V Bar. Again no issues.

I would advise you get a decent fixed V Bar and try it out to see how your bow balances. If you need more weight to change it, just buy some additional weights which are available from all suppliers.

 

[Dhansak]

mbaker74 - thanks for the feedback and info. I confess to being a bit bemused as to how a big name like Easton can be so shoddy in this particular way - consistently too by the sound of it.

Geoff - it will be interesting to try out the whole stabiliser experience properly (I can't remember my 1980s shooting!). I got (on advice) a longrod at the same time as I bought my own riser when moving on from the club bow (i.e. this time round in 2013 not 1980 something). It felt weird at first - and heavy. I adapted ok and have been using that setup for 4 years.

I mentioned that I have only briefly tried a full stab setup recently - good to draw but don't recall the feel of the shots. The only thing I do recall is that the shots grouped better - sort of .... Before and after using the stabs in that session, 90% my arrows appeared randomly dotted in the 8,9 and 10 (Bray face at 20yds). However when using the stabs (shooting 6 arrows at a time), I was getting 2 groups of 3 (diagonally high and low on the 8/9 line) with each group of 3 arrows touching each other. It's like the stabs showed me I was doing 2 different sorts of consistent shots. However it was only about 18 arrows so no data really - but it did intrigue me!

It looks as if I'll have to leave the old 1980s v-bar; I cannot find anything in the house that fits the bolts on it, so can't adjust at all. That coupled with the wrong size thread for modern short rods means I will almost certainly be getting something else. Pity - it's got a really nice double bolt system that means it would fit on the riser in exactly the same position every time. Set it up once and and just screw it in to the riser without having to guess perpendicular by eye and hope that it was the same as last time. I was surprised to see no current v-bars I looked at had this feature.

Thanks again everyone - think I'm nearly there!

 

[bimble]

mbaker74 - thanks for the feedback and info. I confess to being a bit bemused as to how a big name like Easton can be so shoddy in this particular way - consistently too by the sound of it.

Keep in mind this was one item from several years ago. Looking at their website the adjustable v-bars are considerably different from the version with the plastic teeth. So depending on which one the store of your choice has in stock, it might be fine.

 

[bimble]

mbaker74 - thanks for the feedback and info. I confess to being a bit bemused as to how a big name like Easton can be so shoddy in this particular way - consistently too by the sound of it.

Keep in mind this was one item from several years ago. Looking at their website the adjustable v-bars are considerably different from the version with the plastic teeth. So depending on which one the store of your choice has in stock, it might be fine.

 

[Corax67]

I have tried a wide variety of fixed and adjustable v-bars on both recurve and compound, ultimately I am most comfortable with a fixed v on both.

On my recurve is a 40 degree WIAWIS in conjunction with a full HMC22 stab set.

On my compound is a 40 degree Fivics with Cartel long rod & one side rod on the left to counter the sight.


The lack of adjustability is a positive bonus as it is one less thing to get into my head if I am having an off day and go into "pointless tweaking" mode.



Karl

 

[Dhansak]

Bimble - fair point indeed! I don't buy kit very often so don't have my finger on the pulse - consequently I really don't have a feel for how often things change, or get to know the details of different models of things. I peer at the photos, then read the product description (which is usually the same copy and pasted text from the manufacturer's website) hoping that it contains useful info. Then I google it; the I google it again and again! You know I've just noticed that this is a "buying online" issue. In the past I always used to go to a shop where I could see and feel the product and talk to someone directly.. Hmm - I need to visit an actual shop more!

Karl - thank you for the specifics about your setup. At the moment am tending towards getting a pair of Wiawis Nano short rods to go with my current Cartel Balkan longrod. I do hope these combine ok. I have spent the past few days oscillating between fixed and adjustable v-bars .... leaning towards the latter (Doinker mini) currently. I tend not to change things once I have set things up - but I do spend a long time getting to that point lol! After that I spend all of my time tweaking myself .... I will find my form one day...

On a side note - does anyone know what size/type of allen key fits the mini doinker? I'm guessing it's imperial? If so, key sets come in standard, large and XL - so which would be appropriate? I have asked the shop concerned and they have mailed Doinker, but have yet to receive a reply.

Thanks.

 

[Archer5278]

I use the newer Easton adjustable v bar and it is really well engineered. I has metal teeth and indexes very well. However the Shrewd one has quick release built in and may have been a better choice in hindsight.

 

[Clynester1]

I have had the Mybo 3Sixty bar on my recurve for about a year. Only a few small niggles - because of the amount of adjustability on one, make sure that everything is tightened before shooting, as it's a nightmare trying to perfect the setup during a shoot! Another issue is I found my longrod (HMC-22) can unscrew during shooting and washers weren't supplied.

However, I have feeling that these are problems that lot of similar v-bars struggle with and I would certainly recommend the Mybo one!