So called "National" series, and National indoors

[T101]

UK National series

Ok whats going on with this? All legs are completely Southern, and exclude the "National" sports centre at lilleshall.


Normally the distances involved mean some people can do at least one leg at a push, but this is ridiculous.

Even the national indoors is too far/expensive for most, plus this year gents compound had to wait I guess about 3hrs+? for the head to head round after qualification?

I realise you can't please all of the people all of the time, but are suitable venues really that hard to find etc?

Real shame as I enjoy the National Series, or at least I used to.

 

[bimble]

doesn't the National Series rely on shoots bidding (or requesting) to hold NS shoots. Have any shoots in the North of England asked to hold the shoot??

The six years of NS has given us six legs North of Lilleshall, Bradford (x2), Penicuit (x3 - a single + double leg) and York.

I know my county has changed it's county champs format to accommodate the NS (much to the annoyance of everyone who doesn't see why the juniors should be kicked out of the county champs just so there are more bosses for out-of-county archers).

 

[KidCurry]

UK National series

Ok whats going on with this? All legs are completely Southern, and exclude the "National" sports centre at lilleshall.

Do you have a link to find the dates and venue as I can only find 2014 events an AGB site?

 

[bimble]

pages two and three of THIS DOCUMENT has details of the legs from all the years

 

[dave lpb]

Could the reason for no stages being north of the border be that the venues were picked before the Scottish independence vote?
Mind you that doesn't explain why they are all down south and none up north, unless as has already been suggested it's to do with what clubs bit to hold stages.

KidCurry AGB haven't put them on their website (as far as I can see) but bothe AGB & WA put the dates up on their Facebook pages back on 14/10/14. The venues are:
Stage 1&2: Oxford 16/05/15 & 17/05/15 (already fully booked (was fully booked within about 3days of entry forms being available)) will be WA70/WA50 rounds & H2H both days.
Stage 3&4: Surrey 11/07/15 & 12/05/15 (entry open from 01/01/15) will be WA70/WA50 & H2H (day 1) & WA1440 (day 2). More info can be found here: http://surreyarcheryweekend.org.uk/Prospectus15.pdf
Stage 5&6: Exmouth 15/08/15 & 16/08/15 (entry date unknown) will be WA70/WA50 & H2H (day 1) & WA1440 (day 2). More info can be found here:Welcome to Exmouth Archers (under side tab FITA Weekend). I don't know why Exmouth are holding it for a second year running though (Someone told me that apparently there used to be a rule against doing that).

 

[bimble]

Unlikely as (excluding Lilleshall), the only year where stages weren't held in the same place as the year before is between the 2011/2012 seasons and both Evesham and Clophill have held NS shoots three years in a row.

I don't know why Exmouth are holding it for a second year running though (Someone told me that apparently there used to be a rule against doing that).

 

[dave lpb]

Unlikely as (excluding Lilleshall), the only year where stages weren't held in the same place as the year before is between the 2011/2012 seasons and both Evesham and Clophill have held NS shoots three years in a row.

I thought it sounded a bit odd when I was told that lol

 

[dell]

UK National series
Even the national indoors is too far/expensive for most, plus this year gents compound had to wait I guess about 3hrs+? for the head to head round after qualification?

I realise you can't please all of the people all of the time, but are suitable venues really that hard to find etc?

Coventry is most probably the most central location you can find for the Indoors and cost wise, the shoot doesn't make money.
The Gent's Compound and Ladies' Recurve had to wait for the other two categories to complete their ranking round before the head to heads could start.
No way to get round that, although there were a few 'technical' problems during the day that didn't help.

 

[CPlater1]

The thing for the indoors is finding a venue cheap enough and big enough with decent facilities that is in a central-ish location. May be fine if people want to pay ~?60 each for the shoot, but that's unlikely.

 

[Rip T]

From what little I know clubs are invited to bid to host the National Series legs and they are awarded them for a period of 3 years at the specified time of the year.

This is to allow them to recoup the cost of having to provide so many high quality bosses.

I know Clophill hosted a leg for 3 years but this year they are not as it was awarded to another club and one of that clubs big shoots was moved to the required weekend which meant a knock on for other shoots in the area.

National Series is good for the sport and it is growing (over 8000 people at the finals last year) but clubs can't host this without some guarantee they can get back any money they have to pay out to host it.

Rip

 

[T101]

Ok some interesting info there guys thanks. I didn't know about the bidding situation for National Series for example.

IMO clearely a flawed system if it results in venues such as 2015.


Still don't see why Lilleshall isn't allocated one stage though, already got bosses needed etc


I don't see how Coventry is central either, if your only including England and Wales then yes but what about Scotland?


The National Indoor cost is I suppose unavoidable, ?60 (fuel,entry) for 5 dozen arrows, and maybe one more dozen after a 3hr wait, for me just doesn't seem worth it.

Friend of mine dropped out and was refused a refund despite there being a waiting list too.

 

[Bulldog]

Hi, if anyone wants to talk about the venues or selection process around them please drop me an email or give me a ring. [email protected]
Please remember to overlay the international calender then look at the options you have left. If you think I am happy with it being so south this year I am not.
More than happy to chat about it. Also same for the indoor weekend.

Jon

 

[T101]

Hi, if anyone wants to talk about the venues or selection process around them please drop me an email or give me a ring. [email protected]
Please remember to overlay the international calender then look at the options you have left. If you think I am happy with it being so south this year I am not.
More than happy to chat about it. Also same for the indoor weekend.

Jon

hey, thanks for the response.

Think we all realise its not easy to organise these events and we appreciate your efforts and the time you put in. Infact in case you don't get enough thanks, I thank you.

However, is there some reason why there is no info for 2015 on archery GB website, or anywhere else for that matter? Think keeping us informed, with details such as you have mentioned above, would leave little cause for questions/complaints from the vast majority of archers.

Facebook page maybe?

Cheers

 

[dave lpb]

hey, thanks for the response.

Think we all realise its not easy to organise these events and we appreciate your efforts and the time you put in. Infact in case you don't get enough thanks, I thank you.

However, is there some reason why there is no info for 2015 on archery GB website, or anywhere else for that matter? Think keeping us informed, with details such as you have mentioned above, would leave little cause for questions/complaints from the vast majority of archers.

Facebook page maybe?

Cheers

The info for the 2015 national series was put up on the AGB & WA & WA Europe (I believe) pages back in October as I said above, although have to agree its a bit strange that there's nothing on the AGB website (mind you it could be but just not findable as things are quite oftern like that lol). Especially as stage 1 & 2 were fully booked in November

 

[LMK]

Very retrograde step - not only were very very few Surrey archers consulted but simply steam rollering a really good County Championship and in the process losing the Juniors simply cannot be good for the sport. Individuals ambitions over riding the good of the sport.

 

[dell]

After the speed with which Oxford filled up, it will be interesting to see how quickly Surrey fills, especially with their County Championship on the Sunday.

 

[bimble]

I had been told that up to a certain date county archers had priority, and that after that priority then went to two-day archers*... of course, this year the Surrey Archery Weekend wasn't just the Surrey Champs but also the Berkshire Champs... and the Saturday was the English Archery Federation Champs...

* - not from anyone official, just the rumour that came through the club. I'll have an ask at our shoot this afternoon...

 

[Furface]

From what little I know clubs are invited to bid to host the National Series legs and they are awarded them ...

Hi, if anyone wants to talk about the venues or selection process around them please drop me an email or give me a ring. [email protected]
Please remember to overlay the international calender then look at the options you have left. If you think I am happy with it being so south this year I am not....

Having, in my time, been involved in trying to find venues for English tournaments, I have every sympathy for Jon, and what I am about to say implies no criticism of him.
This is a National series, organised by and on behalf of the National Governing Body. It is (as I have been told in the thread on rankings) an essential part of the calendar. So what the hell is it being left to clubs to volunteer for? And why is the threat that they might lose money out of it being held over them? As it is, it is conceivable that no one would volunteer! Surely this is prestigious enough for AGB to tell Regions "This year you shall host a leg on this date", and pick up the tab? If this is too much interference in the "autonomy" of domestic archery, then one has to ask what in the name of all that is holy AGB and the regions are there for**. If there is enough money in AGB to employ someone to reject a submission for the website on the grounds that it uses commas, there is enough money to fund this series
** "What, has this thing appeared again tonight?". OK, what is the answer?

 

[Eluned]

And years on and the same old same old. National Series, National Rankings, National Governing Body. LOL.

 

[ieuan_johns]

Having, in my time, been involved in trying to find venues for English tournaments, I have every sympathy for Jon, and what I am about to say implies no criticism of him.
This is a National series, organised by and on behalf of the National Governing Body. It is (as I have been told in the thread on rankings) an essential part of the calendar. So what the hell is it being left to clubs to volunteer for? And why is the threat that they might lose money out of it being held over them? As it is, it is conceivable that no one would volunteer! Surely this is prestigious enough for AGB to tell Regions "This year you shall host a leg on this date", and pick up the tab? If this is too much interference in the "autonomy" of domestic archery, then one has to ask what in the name of all that is holy AGB and the regions are there for**. If there is enough money in AGB to employ someone to reject a submission for the website on the grounds that it uses commas, there is enough money to fund this series
** "What, has this thing appeared again tonight?". OK, what is the answer?

Sorry but that just doesn't work. AGB can not simply tell a club/county that they are hosting a competition unless AGB are willing to fund it themselves. Then you would end up with it being separate to existing tournaments and thus in competition with them, which other people would moan about.

Inviting clubs to bid makes sense, as does tying them in for 3 years. Less than that could lead to the improvements needed to host costing more than the money made. Now you could suggest that AGB underwrite and loss made, however that would then lead to clubs being able to host it one year, get a shed load of new bosses paid for by AGB and never bothering again.

Where there is a lack of regional variety in the series then everything should be done to encourage clubs in other areas to host, but ultimately if none are interested then what can you do? I would suggest those who feel put out by the lack of a local event put pressure on their clubs/counties to ensure that they make themselves available to host an event in the future.