X10 points Tungsten V Normal
- Thread starter nig295
- Start date
if you shoot into lots of straw they're worth it, if into foam no. There was a recent Easton Target Archery podcast where the guy (George Tekmitchov) who designed them basically said that would be the only reason to shoot them. Of course he has other things to say about shooting 21st Century arrows into fourteenth century targets!! 
It's a fascinating case study in how developments in one area force changes in another. If you consider the evolution of arrows:
- We started with solid wooden sticks, which require a point on the end, and a collar of metal to hold it all together.
- Then you get a hollow aluminium tube. This allows the point to sit inside the shaft, now you need a certain amount of shank to make a glue surface but not all that much. If you look at many Nibb points especially you'll find they are hollow inside. So the same functional point weight could be achieved with aluminium (there were aluminium points for CXLs a few years back) but steel was preferred because it was hard wearing.
- What happens as you get carbon and A/C arrows is that the inside diameter shrinks. In an ACC you can get a heavy point without a long shank, but by the time you get to an ACE diameter (12-- aluminium shaft) a 120gn point already needs both a long shank and a large, bulbous tip.
- With the X10, that diminishing return hit breaking point, literally. Even though the early X10 steel points only went up to 110gn, they had a very long shank and a very long tip. The combination of the two puts very significant torque on the arrow when it hits a hard target (even worse if they are incorrectly tuned), and there were widespread cases of the points bending (typically at the end of the shaft), or of the shafts breaking at the end of the shank. This was a problem on hard straw targets (the ones filled with glue are awful, but even those without can be arrow killers when new) because the rolls on a straw target can cause the arrows to go in at an angle if they hit the edge of a roll, just like if they're poorly tuned. The other killer was the stramit squares which when new would stop an arrow dead. These effects were particularly bad shooting at short distances.
- The tungsten point acts against these problems in two ways. First, the shorter tip and shank simply don't put the same torque on the shaft, so it doesn't break. Second, if you look at a tungsten point, you'll notice that it has a different profile to many points: it's like a bulbous cone sitting on the end of the arrow, like an onion. This makes a wider hole than the shaft and leaves a more rounded tip for any torque to act upon. So even going into a hard target, it allows the arrow to move a little in its hole thus reducing the amount of torque going into bending the arrow.
PS: It's particularly interesting because in my experience the X10 is a far more durable arrow than most due to the thickness of the carbon wall. They resist breakage from impact most impressively, so I find it fascinating that the "wrong" points for the targets counteracted the excellent construction.
- We started with solid wooden sticks, which require a point on the end, and a collar of metal to hold it all together.
- Then you get a hollow aluminium tube. This allows the point to sit inside the shaft, now you need a certain amount of shank to make a glue surface but not all that much. If you look at many Nibb points especially you'll find they are hollow inside. So the same functional point weight could be achieved with aluminium (there were aluminium points for CXLs a few years back) but steel was preferred because it was hard wearing.
- What happens as you get carbon and A/C arrows is that the inside diameter shrinks. In an ACC you can get a heavy point without a long shank, but by the time you get to an ACE diameter (12-- aluminium shaft) a 120gn point already needs both a long shank and a large, bulbous tip.
- With the X10, that diminishing return hit breaking point, literally. Even though the early X10 steel points only went up to 110gn, they had a very long shank and a very long tip. The combination of the two puts very significant torque on the arrow when it hits a hard target (even worse if they are incorrectly tuned), and there were widespread cases of the points bending (typically at the end of the shaft), or of the shafts breaking at the end of the shank. This was a problem on hard straw targets (the ones filled with glue are awful, but even those without can be arrow killers when new) because the rolls on a straw target can cause the arrows to go in at an angle if they hit the edge of a roll, just like if they're poorly tuned. The other killer was the stramit squares which when new would stop an arrow dead. These effects were particularly bad shooting at short distances.
- The tungsten point acts against these problems in two ways. First, the shorter tip and shank simply don't put the same torque on the shaft, so it doesn't break. Second, if you look at a tungsten point, you'll notice that it has a different profile to many points: it's like a bulbous cone sitting on the end of the arrow, like an onion. This makes a wider hole than the shaft and leaves a more rounded tip for any torque to act upon. So even going into a hard target, it allows the arrow to move a little in its hole thus reducing the amount of torque going into bending the arrow.
PS: It's particularly interesting because in my experience the X10 is a far more durable arrow than most due to the thickness of the carbon wall. They resist breakage from impact most impressively, so I find it fascinating that the "wrong" points for the targets counteracted the excellent construction.
Flyingwatchmaker
New member
Tool steel points for carbon express are built that way, still a bit pricey, but quite resilient (as long as you don't smack them together as I did earlier this week) ;-)
Tom
Tom
3rd party supplier. Arrowsmith components.
Link back to a thread showing them side by side with the steel ones:
http://www.archeryinterchange.com/f273/x10-points-223662/
Hi Rik, how are the points holding out - or rather the shafts using them? Have you tried shooting into straw or a hard target (or leg...), I can't use my X10's at my club as the targets are so hard (that was an expensive realisation), but my trusty triples have held out well.
After a few robin hoods etc I need to get a new set of arrows for outdoor season and trying to decide on what to get.
Last edited:
No problems so far. That's only with 40lb on my fingers, mind you, but the bosses are (more than a few of them) of the "argh! OMG, I need a jack to get this out!" variety of straw boss.
I do know what you mean though. I've seen compounders break x10s on hard bosses (even with tungsten points).